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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Johann]
#147378
11/24/12 12:04 AM
11/24/12 12:04 AM
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Are our pastors/evangelists in our church performing a similar service in our preaching? Are we to be compared to the services of the Roman Catholic priest, the Jewish priest - or the work of a prophet? The services are certainly not identical, but there are similarities. The tribe of Levi was tasked with teaching the people about God and His ways. That would surely fit the role of pastor/evangelist. But strictly speaking, the role of God's priest today can only be filled by Jesus, our High Priest. And He's not even from Levi! So we cannot make too much of the link between the OT system and today. However, I believe there is a principle that applied then and still applies now, and it cuts across all roles: God chooses His servants. We need to make sure we are on the same page as God.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#147380
11/24/12 12:18 AM
11/24/12 12:18 AM
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Regarding Samuel, it is clear from other accounts in the Bible that anyone not qualified to be a priest would not have been permitted to serve as one. First, here's a quote that says Samuel was a priest: Since the days of Joshua the government had never been conducted with so great wisdom and success as under Samuel's administration. Divinely invested with the threefold office of judge, prophet, and priest, he had labored with untiring and disinterested zeal for the welfare of his people, and the nation had prospered under his wise control. {PP 603.4}But maybe he was not a normal priest. The Bible does not indicate this, but perhaps Samuel's mother was descended from Aaron. Even then, his tribe comes through his father. For example, though Mary and Elizabeth were cousins, Jesus was from Judah and John was from Levi.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: asygo]
#147381
11/24/12 12:22 AM
11/24/12 12:22 AM
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IIRC, both sinner and priest participated intimately in the slaughter and butchering of the animals. Can't look it up now. It was the sinner who did the killing, not the priest. The priest would then take the blood and make an atonement by it, sprinkling it around the altar or before the veil. Leviticus
1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
1:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, [even] of the herd, and of the flock.
1:3 If his offering [be] a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
1:4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
1:5 And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that [is by] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
4:22 When a ruler hath sinned, and done [somewhat] through ignorance [against] any of the commandments of the LORD his God [concerning things] which should not be done, and is guilty;
4:23 Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish:
4:24 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD: it [is] a sin offering.
4:25 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering.
4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth [somewhat against] any of the commandments of the LORD [concerning things] which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
4:28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.
4:29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.
4:30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar.
4:31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn [it] upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. But the priest would sometimes do the killing, too...when it was his own sin. 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
4:4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.
4:5 And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
4:6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the veil of the sanctuary.
4:7 And the priest shall put [some] of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which [is] in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which [is at] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. If the sin were a more general one, committed by the congregation, then it appears it was the elders among them who killed the animal. 4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done [somewhat against] any of the commandments of the LORD [concerning things] which should not be done, and are guilty;
4:14 When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation.
4:15 And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD.
4:16 And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:
4:17 And the priest shall dip his finger [in some] of the blood, and sprinkle [it] seven times before the LORD, [even] before the veil. As before, it was the priest's duty to sprinkle the blood from the animal. This was always the priest's role to make an atonement for the sin. By the sinner killing the animal, the gravity of his or her sin would be more strongly represented and it would help them, hopefully, to avoid doing the same thing again. It is not an easy thing to kill an animal, especially not one of your own favorites. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#147382
11/24/12 12:24 AM
11/24/12 12:24 AM
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It seems Arnold is correct in that Moses was not a priest; however, Moses did have the God-ordained task of consecrating Aaron and his sons to the priesthood (see e.g. Exodus 40). Here's an interesting fact: Aaron was the God-appointed high priest, the head of all the priests, but his kid brother Moses was the God-appointed leader above him. Moses was never ordained as a priest. Why does the conference think that in order to be a leader, one must first be ordained a pastor? Is anyone else thinking that our ways are not quite right?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#147383
11/24/12 12:32 AM
11/24/12 12:32 AM
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SDA
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IIRC, both sinner and priest participated intimately in the slaughter and butchering of the animals. Can't look it up now. It was the sinner who did the killing, not the priest. The priest would then take the blood and make an atonement by it, sprinkling it around the altar or before the veil. Then there was the removal of fat and organs, etc. I always thought the priest helped with that.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: asygo]
#147384
11/24/12 12:33 AM
11/24/12 12:33 AM
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OP
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Regarding Samuel, it is clear from other accounts in the Bible that anyone not qualified to be a priest would not have been permitted to serve as one. First, here's a quote that says Samuel was a priest: ... Please stick to the Bible for this thread. But the Bible tells us enough to know what Samuel's role was. He was a judge, a prophet, and a priest. Note the following: 1 Samuel 2:18 But Samuel ministered before the LORD, [being] a child, girded with a linen ephod.
...
1 Samuel 2:26 And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men.
1 Samuel 2:27 And there came a man of God unto Eli, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Did I plainly appear unto the house of thy father, when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house?
1 Samuel 2:28 And did I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel [to be] my priest, to offer upon mine altar, to burn incense, to wear an ephod before me? and did I give unto the house of thy father all the offerings made by fire of the children of Israel?
...
1 Samuel 3:19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.
1 Samuel 3:20 And all Israel from Dan even to Beersheba knew that Samuel [was] established [to be] a prophet of the LORD.
...
1 Samuel 7:15 And Samuel judged Israel all the days of his life. But maybe he was not a normal priest. The Bible does not indicate this, but perhaps Samuel's mother was descended from Aaron. Even then, his tribe comes through his father. For example, though Mary and Elizabeth were cousins, Jesus was from Judah and John was from Levi. Jesus was also descended from Levi.  Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: asygo]
#147385
11/24/12 12:33 AM
11/24/12 12:33 AM
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The Bible does not indicate this, but perhaps Samuel's mother was descended from Aaron. Even then, his tribe comes through his father. For example, though Mary and Elizabeth were cousins, Jesus was from Judah and John was from Levi. Luke 1:5 King James Version (KJV) 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. Does this indicate that both of them were the children of Aaron? Abia is listed as a priest in 1 Chron 24:10 and Neh. 12:4.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Johann]
#147386
11/24/12 12:38 AM
11/24/12 12:38 AM
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OP
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Good point, Johann. That's pretty clear regarding Jesus' lineage then. I had never connected those dots. Very interesting! Now I'm going to see in my Bible which of the genealogies is "wrong."  UPDATE: I just checked, and it's not as simple as it had appeared. It's still a mystery which genealogy is for Mary and which is for Joseph. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
Last edited by Green Cochoa; 11/24/12 12:46 AM. Reason: Update
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Johann]
#147387
11/24/12 12:42 AM
11/24/12 12:42 AM
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Among the Levites only the sons of Aaron were priests.
2 Chronicles 29:24
And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.
Did the priest make a verbal pastoral or evangelistic sermon when he killed the animal?
Who did the preaching in Israel?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective
[Re: Johann]
#147389
11/24/12 12:53 AM
11/24/12 12:53 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Among the Levites only the sons of Aaron were priests.
2 Chronicles 29:24
And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.
Did the priest make a verbal pastoral or evangelistic sermon when he killed the animal?
Who did the preaching in Israel? Yes, the priests were also charged with teaching the people spiritually. Here's a verse where this is specifically noted. 2 Chronicles
15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD [is] with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.
15:3 Now for a long season Israel [hath been] without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.
15:4 But when they in their trouble did turn unto the LORD God of Israel, and sought him, he was found of them. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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