Man was brought again into favor with God by the washing of regeneration. The washing was the burial with Christ in the water in the likeness of His death, representing that all who repent of the transgression of the law of God receive purification, cleansing, through the work of the Holy Spirit. Baptism represents true conversion by the renewing of the Holy Spirit. {FLB 143.3}

Those who have been buried with Christ in baptism, and been raised in the likeness of His resurrection, have pledged themselves to live in newness of life. "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth." Colossians 3:1, 2. {FLB 143.4}

"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3. He may conjecture and imagine, but without the eye of faith he cannot see the treasure. Christ gave His life to secure for us this inestimable treasure; but without regeneration through faith in His blood, there is no remission of sins, no treasure for any perishing soul. {COL 112.5}

Nicodemus had come to the Lord thinking to enter into a discussion with Him, but Jesus laid bare the foundation principles of truth. He said to Nicodemus, It is not theoretical knowledge you need so much as spiritual regeneration. You need not to have your curiosity satisfied, but to have a new heart. You must receive a new life from above before you can appreciate heavenly things. Until this change takes place, making all things new, it will result in no saving good for you to discuss with Me My authority or My mission. {DA 171.1}

There was no excuse for the blindness of Israel in regard to the work of regeneration. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Isaiah had written, "We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." David had prayed, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." And through Ezekiel the promise had been given, "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes." Isaiah 64:6; Psalm 51:10; Ezekiel 36:26, 27. {DA 174.1}

Regeneration is the only path by which we can enter the city of God. It is narrow, and the gate by which we enter is strait; but along it we are to lead men and women and children, teaching them that, in order to be saved, they must have a new heart and a new spirit. The old, hereditary traits of character must be overcome. The natural desires of the soul must be changed. All deception, all falsifying, all evilspeaking, must be put away. The new life, which makes men and women Christlike, is to be lived. 36 {CCh 59.3}

What I have been talking about is salvation. Most here is appears that salvation is a legal issue. I don't. I see salvation as a real issue, sin as a real problem.

Just to be clear - so, because we have a fallen, depraved nature we are guilty and condemned, even if we do not cherish it or act it out; if we are abiding in Jesus the Father ignores our guilt and condemnation.

What effect does our ignored depravity, guilt, and condemnation have on the fruits of the Spirit we experience while abiding in Jesus? Does it stain them with sin and selfishness? Or, do they flow from us pure and holy and undefiled?

Is "righteousness and true holiness" real or forensic, imparted or imputed?

A: There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Even the vilest sinner is not condemned if he is in Christ Jesus. I'll say again what I said last time: Because when a person is in Christ, God looks at Christ's holiness, not the person's depravity. So, no, one abiding in Jesus is not condemned. But it is not because he is holy, but because Jesus is holy. The depravity still brings guilt and condemnation, but Jesus takes it all away. It's still there, but it is rendered powerless by Christ's righteousness. We are not to worry about what God thinks of us, but what He thinks of Christ.

M: Just to be clear - so, because we have a fallen, depraved nature we are guilty and condemned, even if we do not cherish it or act it out; if we are abiding in Jesus the Father ignores our guilt and condemnation.

A: Almost. God doesn't ignore them, He disposes of them. God placed them on Jesus our Substitute, and they will be disposed of along with all the other sins in the sanctuary. We simply need to accept His propitiation.

M: What effect does our ignored depravity, guilt, and condemnation have on the fruits of the Spirit we experience while abiding in Jesus? Does it stain them with sin and selfishness? Or, do they flow from us pure and holy and undefiled?

A: Passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They are fig leaves, filthy rags compared to Christ's robe of righteousness.

M: Is "righteousness and true holiness" real or forensic, imparted or imputed?

A: Both. But what God counts in the judgment of those who are in Jesus is not what they have done, or even what He has done in and through them. What counts is what God did in and through Jesus, and accepted by His people as a gift.

What is the difference between 1) "It's still there," and 2) "He disposes of them"?

We are guilty and condemned, not because our nature is fallen, but because our nature is depraved. That depraved nature cannot be controlled by human power. Only in Christ can we hope to control it.

But when a person is in Christ, does that mean that his nature is no longer depraved? It is very likely to still be depraved. Does that mean that his depraved nature is no longer condemned? God still condemns it. Does that mean a person in Christ is condemned by God? No, it does not. How? Because when a person is in Christ, God looks at Christ's holiness, not the person's depravity.

M: What is the difference between 1) "It's still there," and 2) "He disposes of them"?

A: "It's still there" and "He disposes of them" are independent concepts. It's like asking what's the difference between a manual transmission and a flyswatter. What you're probably wondering about is what's the difference between "He ignores them" and "He disposes of them." It's the same difference as trash day at your house. You roll out your trash the night before. If you walk out the next morning early enough, it's still there. When you think about how the trash collector relates to your trash, is there a difference between "he ignores it" and "he disposes of it"? That's the difference.

Two metaphors. Nice job. Let's go with trash. So, the fruit of abiding in Jesus is trash. We toss it curbside and it is hauled to the landfill. Jesus said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." Does the trash collector discern our character based on our trash? Does he shift gears with a flyswatter?