As one writer said:
"If we lose our faith in the substituationary atonement we lose the Gospel. If you deny the substitutationary atonement you have essentially lost the Christian faith…As my substitute He endured what I deserve in order to give me what I don't deserve."

Christ didn't just "have to experience" the cross to make Him an understanding priest. That is simply evading the whole meaning and message in the quotes I shared.

He took our sins upon Himself, the full guilt load, and suffered THE PUNISHMENT due sinners, making salvation possible for every one.

The price has been paid. But now people must respond with contrite hearts else they are insisting on carrying their own sins which ends with them reaping the punishment because they reject the gift.

This is NOT an either or situation.
Substitution is absolutely essential -- without it all the "moral influence" and "good works" avails absolutely nothing.

It's because of what Christ has done that we respond, accepting His death as death to our sin and rising to new life in Christ. Born again to live for him.

Christ's death was ‘penal' in that he bore a penalty when He died. His death was also a ‘substitution' in that He was a substitute for us when He died.

Christ died instead of us (substitution) as a sacrifice that took away the guilt of our sins (expiation). Thus as Romans 6 declares we can reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive in Christ. Not that we won't have to struggle against sin, there will always be struggle this side of heaven, but we can KNOW WE HAVE A CLEAN SLATE before God when we confess our sins and by His grace follow Him in humble obedience, not to EARN salvation but because He is our Lord and Savior. And yes, THEN healing does take place.

"The world's Redeemer was treated as we deserve to be treated, in order that we might be treated as he deserved to be treated. (Our substitute) He came to our world and took our sins upon his own divine soul, that we might receive his imputed righteousness. He was condemned for our sins, (our penalty) in which he had no share, that we might be justified by his righteousness, in which we had no share... Redeemed by the ransom money paid for your souls, (legal transaction) you will go forth and show how much you love Jesus by obedience to his commandments. You are to bring forth fruit by doing his commandments, because you are branches of the living Vine. (Healing) It is his prayer that his joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. {RH, March 21, 1893 par. 6}

I don't know. But then, there are many truths that I don't know. I don't even know how divine chromosmes can be compatible with Mary's human set.

See, didn't I tell you that if you ask a question that I can't answer, I'll say so?


I can plainly say that this goes beyond genetics. How can genetics explain how Deity can come from the genetic material of a sinner + who knows what from the Holy Spirit? If it was all genetics, how can Jesus not be born with the same evil, sinful propensities that we all did? And how does genetics explain how we can inherit guilt from Adam? Genetics might explain some things, but it doesn't cover all the bases.

So exactly what does cover all the bases? I don't know. But it sure doesn't look like genetics will do the trick. And it would be another logical fallacy to think that since I have no valid alternative, that your proposal must be correct.

What you are saying is that since you don't know, then I don't know.

You have not studied genetics.

You have not shown any hint that you know what epigenetics is. You do not know what mobile genetic elements are. And I can not begin to explain these things because you discount the whole idea from the get go.

You say Inheritance is not even genetic.

Does God cause sickness and death?

Sickness, suffering, and death are work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer. {MH 113.1}

The words spoken to Israel are true today of those who recover health of body or health of soul. "I am the Lord that healeth thee." Exodus 15:26. {MH 113.2}

The desire of God for every human being is expressed in the words, "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." 3 John 2. {MH 113.3}

He it is who "forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with loving-kindness and tender mercies." Psalm 103:3, 4. {MH 113.4}

When Christ healed disease, He warned many of the afflicted ones, "Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." John 5:14. Thus He taught that they had brought disease upon themselves by transgressing the laws of God, and that health could be preserved only by obedience. {MH 113.5}

Not long after Peter's deliverance from prison, Herod went to Caesarea. While there he made a great festival designed to excite the admiration and gain the applause of the people. This festival was attended by pleasure lovers from all quarters, and there was much feasting and wine drinking. With great pomp and ceremony Herod appeared before the people and addressed them in an eloquent oration. Clad in a robe sparkling with silver and gold, which caught the rays of the sun in its glittering folds and dazzled the eyes of the beholders, he was a gorgeous figure. The majesty of his appearance and the force of his well-chosen language swayed the assembly with a mighty power. Their senses already perverted by feasting and wine drinking, they were dazzled by Herod's decorations and charmed by his deportment and oratory; and wild with enthusiasm they showered adulation upon him, declaring that no mortal could present such an appearance or command such startling eloquence. They further declared that while they had ever respected him as a ruler, henceforth they should worship him as a god. {AA 149.4}
Some of those whose voices were now heard glorifying a vile sinner had but a few years before raised the frenzied cry, Away with Jesus! Crucify Him, crucify Him! The Jews had refused to receive Christ, whose garments, coarse and often travel-stained, covered a heart of divine love. Their eyes could not discern, under the humble exterior, the Lord of life and glory, even though Christ's power was revealed before them in works that no mere man could do. But they were ready to worship as a god the haughty king whose splendid garments of silver and gold covered a corrupt, cruel heart. {AA 150.1}
Herod knew that he deserved none of the praise and homage offered him, yet he accepted the idolatry of the people as his due. His heart bounded with triumph, and a glow of gratified pride overspread his countenance as he heard the shout ascend, "It is the voice of a god, and not of a man." {AA 151.1}
But suddenly a terrible change came over him. His face became pallid as death and distorted with agony. Great drops of sweat started from his pores. He stood for a moment as if transfixed with pain and terror; then turning his blanched and livid face to his horror-stricken friends, he cried in hollow, despairing tones, He whom you have exalted as a god is stricken with death. {AA 151.2}
Suffering the most excruciating anguish, he was borne from the scene of revelry and display. A moment before he had been the proud recipient of the praise and worship of that vast throng; now he realized that he was in the hands of a Ruler mightier than himself. Remorse seized him; he remembered his relentless persecution of the followers of Christ; he remembered his cruel command to slay the innocent James, and his design to put to death the apostle Peter; he remembered how in his mortification and disappointed rage he had wreaked an unreasoning vengeance upon the prison guards. He felt that God was now dealing with him, the relentless persecutor. He found no relief from pain of body or anguish of mind, and he expected none. {AA 151.3}
Herod was acquainted with the law of God, which says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3); and he knew that in accepting the worship of the people he had filled up the measure of his iniquity and brought upon himself the just wrath of Jehovah. {AA 151.4}
The same angel who had come from the royal courts to rescue Peter, had been the messenger of wrath and judgment to Herod. The angel smote Peter to arouse him from slumber; it was with a different stroke that he smote the wicked king, laying low his pride and bringing upon him the punishment of the Almighty. Herod died in great agony of mind and body, under the retributive judgment of God. {AA 152.1}
This demonstration of divine justice had a powerful influence upon the people. The tidings that the apostle of Christ had been miraculously delivered from prison and death, while his persecutor had been stricken down by the curse of God, were borne to all lands and became the means of leading many to a belief in Christ. {AA 152.2}

APL

Is it your contention that sin is physical and not spiritual?

Yes, Christ died in our place. Yes, this was to take away sin. You say it is a "legal" clean slate. I say it is real, and physical