The thread title is "Do We Really Understand Conversion?"

What then is conversion?

After faithful labor, if you are satisfied that your children understand the meaning of conversion and baptism and are truly converted, let them be baptized. {CG 500.2}

Candidates who have grown to manhood and womanhood should understand their duty better than do the younger ones; but the pastor of the church has a duty to do for these souls. Have they wrong habits and practices? It is the duty of the pastor to have special meetings with them. Give them Bible readings, converse and pray with them, and plainly show the claims of the Lord upon them. Read to them the teaching of the Bible in regard to conversion. Show what is the fruit of conversion, the evidence that they love God. Show that true conversion is a change of heart, of thoughts and purposes. Evil habits are to be given up. The sins of evil-speaking, of jealousy, of disobedience, are to be put away. A warfare must be waged against every evil trait of character. Then the believing one can understandingly take to himself the promise: "Ask, and it shall be given you." Matthew 7:7. 544 {CCh 297.3}

The preparation for baptism is a matter that needs to be carefully considered. The new converts to the truth should be faithfully instructed in the plain "Thus saith the Lord." The Word of the Lord is to be read and explained to them point by point. {Ev 308.1}

All who enter upon the new life should understand, prior to their baptism, that the Lord requires the undivided affections. . . . The practicing of the truth is essential. The bearing of fruit testifies to the character of the tree. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. The line of demarcation will be plain and distinct between those who love God and keep His commandments and those who love Him not and disregard His precepts. There is need of a thorough conversion to the truth.--Manuscript 56, 1900. {Ev 308.2}

The test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism. . . . When they give evidence that they fully understand their position, they are to be accepted.--Testimonies to Ministers, p. 128. (1897) {Ev 308.3}

Thorough Preparation for Baptism.--There is need of a more thorough preparation on the part of candidates for baptism. They are in need of more faithful instruction than has usually been given them. The principles of the Christian life should be made plain to those who have newly come to the truth. None can depend upon their profession of faith as proof that they have a saving connection with Christ. We are not only to say, "I believe," but to practice the truth. It is by conformity to the will of God in our words, our deportment, our character, that we prove our connection with Him. Whenever one renounces sin, which is the transgression of the law, his life will be brought into conformity to the law, into perfect obedience. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. The light of the Word carefully studied, the voice of conscience, the strivings of the Spirit, produce in the heart genuine love for Christ, who gave Himself a whole sacrifice to redeem the whole person, body, soul, and spirit. And love is manifested in obedience.--Testimonies, vol. 6, pp. 91, 92. (1900) {Ev 308.4}

The test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism. It should be understood whether they are simply taking the name of Seventh-day Adventists, or whether they are taking their stand on the Lord's side, to come out from the world and be separate, and touch not the unclean thing. Before baptism, there should be a thorough inquiry as to the experience of the candidates. Let this inquiry be made, not in a cold and distant way, but kindly, tenderly, pointing the new converts to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Bring the requirements of the gospel to bear upon the candidates for baptism. {Ev 311.2}

One of the points upon which those newly come to the faith will need instruction is the subject of dress. Let the new converts be faithfully dealt with. Are they vain in dress? Do they cherish pride of heart? The idolatry of dress is a moral disease. It must not be taken over into the new life. In most cases, submission to the gospel requirements will demand a decided change in the dress. {Ev 312.1}

There should be no carelessness in dress. For Christ's sake, whose witnesses we are, we should seek to make the best of our appearance. In the tabernacle service, God specified every detail concerning the garments of those who ministered before Him. Thus we are taught that He has a preference in regard to the dress of those who serve Him. Very specific were the directions given in regard to Aaron's robes, for his dress was symbolic. So the dress of Christ's followers should be symbolic. In all things we are to be representatives of Him. Our appearance in every respect should be characterized by neatness, modesty, and purity. But the Word of God gives no sanction to the making of changes in apparel merely for the sake of fashion,--that we may appear like the world. Christians are not to decorate the person with costly array or expensive ornaments. {Ev 312.2}

The words of Scripture in regard to dress should be carefully considered. We need to understand that which the Lord of heaven appreciates in even the dressing of the body. All who are in earnest in seeking for the grace of Christ will heed the precious words of instruction inspired by God. Even the style of the apparel will express the truth of the gospel. {Ev 312.3}

All who study the life of Christ and practice His teachings will become like Christ. Their influence will be like His. They will reveal soundness of character. As they walk in the humble path of obedience, doing the will of God, they exert an influence that tells for the advancement of the cause of God and the healthful purity of His work. In these thoroughly converted souls the world is to have a witness to the sanctifying power of truth upon the human character. {Ev 313.1}

The knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ, expressed in character, is an exaltation above everything that is esteemed in earth or in heaven. It is the very highest education. It is the key that opens the portals of the heavenly city. This knowledge it is God's purpose that all who put on Christ by baptism shall possess. And it is the duty of God's servants to set before these souls the privilege of their high calling in Christ Jesus.--Testimonies, vol. 6, pp. 95-97. (1900) {Ev 313.2}

Judge by the Fruit of the Life.--There is one thing that we have no right to do, and that is to judge another man's heart or impugn his motives. But when a person presents himself as a candidate for church membership, we are to examine the fruit of his life, and leave the responsibility of his motive with himself. But great care should be exercised in accepting members into the church; for Satan has his specious devices through which he purposes to crowd false brethren into the church, through whom he can work more successfully to weaken the cause of God.--Review and Herald, Jan. 10, 1893. {Ev 313.3}

We can understand conversion by studying what is required of new converts. Passages like the ones posted above describe it very well.

Rosangela, do people experience true, genuine, thorough conversion before they are thoroughly indoctrinated, before they become familiar with "all things whatsoever" Jesus "commanded"?

Of course. You cannot fix the moment for the person to be born again. "The wind blows where it wishes." You cannot say that persons can only be converted after all their sins have been revealed to them and after they have been thoroughly indoctrinated. They are born again when they fall in love with Jesus and surrender their lives to Him, whether all their sins have been revealed to them or not, whether they have been thoroughly indoctrinated or not.

I am impressed with the passages I posted above. Conversion is the fruit of thorough indoctrination. People who are not thoroughly converted are sources of perplexity at home and at church.

How thoroughly converted was the thief on the cross?

This speaks of conversion to Catholicism and legalism.


Conversion to Christ is the fruit of God's Spirit leading a soul to repentance, from a life of crime and selfishness.
From a human nature to a born again nature.

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This is true Mike. EGW said not even one in 200 were converted in her day. This could comprise entire congregations.

One of the greatest confusions in churches is the marriage & remarriage of pastors and church officials. Such acts are condoned by the conference leaders and the GC, yet marriage is a symbol of Christ's union with His people. How perplexing for all - a sort of marital musical chairs - who's next?
No, Christ will not leave us.

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