A half conversion is only a snare to betray other souls into the same divided service. Every truly converted soul shows a transformation in character, and a marked change takes place. (Diary Fragments, June, 1903.) {12MR 83.3}

We do not realize how untiring are Satan's efforts to sap our spirituality. He is working mightily that the people of God may be only half converted. Then self will swell to large proportions, and there will be no revelation to the world of the transforming power of God. If this power does not rest upon God's people and move them to sanctified action, they cannot do the work in the earth that has been shown us must be done. Without this power, they will not realize their responsibility as his representatives in a world of unbelief. {GCB, June 6, 1913 par. 9}

Every one may find something to do in saving souls and advancing the truth of God. It is because men are not more than half converted that the church is so lifeless. There are many who are, and have been all their lives, only half Christians. {ST, March 10, 1898 par. 6}

Some teachers and managers who are only half converted are stumbling blocks to others. They concede some things and make half reforms; but when greater knowledge comes, they refuse to advance, preferring to work according to their own ideas. In doing this they pluck and eat of that tree of knowledge which places the human above the divine. {6T 141.2}

I saw that unless there is an entire change in the young, a thorough conversion, they may despair of heaven. From what has been shown me, there are not more than half of the young who profess religion and the truth, who have been truly converted. If they had been converted, they would bear fruit to the glory of God. Many are leaning upon a supposed hope, without a true foundation. The fountain is not cleansed, therefore the streams proceeding from that fountain are not pure. Cleanse the fountain, and the streams will be pure. {MYP 131.1}

Thorough conversion is necessary among those who profess to believe the truth, in order for them to follow Jesus and obey the will of God -- not a submission born of circumstances, as was that of the terrified Israelites when the power of the Infinite was revealed to them, but a deep and heartfelt repentance and renunciation of sin. Those who are but half converted are as a tree whose boughs hang upon the side of truth, but whose roots, firmly bedded in the earth, strike out into the barren soil of the world. Jesus looks in vain for fruit upon its branches; He finds nothing but leaves. {4T 155.3}

Said Christ, "He that will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me." To follow Jesus fully requires a thorough conversion. Half-way converts make half-hearted Christians. Again, said Christ, "He that is not for me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." The plain words of truth spoken by our Saviour sifted his followers down to a few faithful ones who laid the foundation of the Christian church. {RH, December 2, 1875 par. 5}

That's a side issue. There's a more fundamental point to settle.

Jesus said to "teach them to observe all things that I have commanded you." Does conversion happen before or after that?


Where does conversion fit in that list? And when do they "become familiar with 'all things whatsoever' Jesus 'commanded'"?

Sounds like you just said that if you sin ignorantly, that is not sin.

So it would follow, that if you truly believe eating pork is not a sin, it is not a sin. And if you truly believe that after Jesus death, that the Sabbath is no longer binding, being "nailed to the cross", then breaking it is not a sin.

Not sure I agree with your idea of ignorance. As someone said, sin is sin.

It's another question of whether people who ignorantly sin will be saved. If they had the opportunity to know better, one would think they would be held accountable.

Convert to what? Convert to believe and behave in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. People begin the long, patient, protracted process of converting when they begin learning about Jesus and the truth. But they do not complete the process until they learn to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. All the quotes I posted above make it clear true, genuine, thorough conversion results in living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. Of course there are many nice and wonderful things people learn thereafter for the rest of eternity.

The differences between biblical and SOP lifestyle choices is not sin. People can live in harmony with biblical lifestyle choices but be ignorant of SOP lifestyle choices and not be guilty of sinning.

In light of the passages posted above - What is the difference between half converted and thoroughly converted?

I think that takes us to the root of the discussion. The answer to the thread title is: No.

I understand conversion to be a change of heart - spirit, motives, intentions, purposes, character. Behavior changes, but it displays conversion, rather than defines it. That means at least one of us doesn't understand conversion.

I would not be surprised to see Luther in heaven, even though he spent his entire life breaking Christ's clear command to keep the seventh day holy. He might have had false beliefs and faulty behavior, but if his heart was right, he'll be fine.

And with that, I bid you all farewell once more.

Luther was in the process of converting to obeying and observing everything Jesus commanded, but clearly he died before he was able to complete the process. "Luther was as yet but partially converted from the errors of Romanism. {GC 139.2} He, and others like him, will be in heaven because he lived up to the light he believed.


"A holy temper, a Christlike life, is accessible to every repenting, believing child of God." This is true of people from the moment they experience true, genuine, thorough conversion in God's appointed way. Most, unfortunately, do not complete the process of conversion. They begin it alright, but they do not finish it.

The idea that people complete the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded before there is "a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether," before "sinful thoughts are put away, evil deeds are renounced; love, humility, and peace take the place of anger, envy, and strife" is simply not representative of true, genuine, thorough conversion.

Mike, the title of this thread is "Do we really understand conversion?" The conversion we are speaking about is repentance and renunciation of sin.
Of course Ellen White is not speaking about this when she says that Luther was partially converted. Or do you think she was?

"Thy sins be forgiven thee." These words are spoken to the repentant, believing soul. Wonderful Saviour! All need to understand the process of conversion. The fruit is seen in the changed life. True repentance will be shown to be sincere by producing fruit in good works. None can depend upon their profession of faith as proof that they have a saving connection with Christ. It is by conformity to the will of God in our words, our deportment, our character that we prove our connection with him. We cannot depend on any other one to do our work for us. We must perform our duties for ourselves. We must work the will of God, and delight to do his commandments. Then we shall not lean upon any one but Jesus Christ for support and efficiency. {6MR 157.2}

I have been shown that many have confused ideas in regard to conversion. They have often heard the words repeated from the pulpit, "Ye must be born again." "You must have a new heart." These expressions have perplexed them. They could not comprehend the plan of salvation. {Ev 286.1}

The conversion of the human soul is of no little consequence. It is the greatest miracle performed by divine power. Actual results are to be reached through a belief in Christ as a personal Saviour. Purified by obedience to the law of God, sanctified by a perfect observance of His holy Sabbath, trusting, believing, patiently waiting, and earnestly working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, we shall learn that it is God that worketh in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. {Ev 289.2}

he conversion of souls to God is the greatest work, the highest work, in which human beings can have a part. In the conversion of souls God's forbearance, His unbounded love, His holiness, His power, are revealed. Every true conversion glorifies Him, and causes the angels to break forth into singing. "Mercy and truth have met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." {Ev 292.1}

Conversion is a work that most do not appreciate. It is not a small matter to transform an earthly, sin-loving mind and bring it to understand the unspeakable love of Christ, the charms of His grace, and the excellency of God, so that the soul shall be imbued with divine love and captivated with the heavenly mysteries. When he understands these things, his former life appears disgusting and hateful. He hates sin, and, breaking his heart before God, he embraces Christ as the life and joy of the soul. He renounces his former pleasures. He has a new mind, new affections, new interest, new will; his sorrows, and desires, and love are all new. . . . Heaven, which once possessed no charms, is now viewed in its riches and glory; and he contemplates it as his future home, where he shall see, love, and praise the One who hath redeemed him by His precious blood. The works of holiness, which appeared wearisome, are now his delight. The Word of God, which was dull and uninteresting, is now chosen as his study, the man of his counsel. It is as a letter written to him from God, bearing the inscription of the Eternal. His thoughts, his words, and his deeds are brought to this rule and tested. He trembles at the commands and threatenings which it contains, while he firmly grasps its promises and strengthens his soul by appropriating them to himself. {FLB 139.2}

The change essential is conversion from error to truth. The temple lies in ruins, and an attempt to build it with the same old material is useless. Only the power of God can transform the character of man, conforming him to the image of Christ in heart and mind, for even the thoughts are to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ. Only think of the work to be done. God takes fallen man, a worm of the dust, and transforms him, fitting him to be a member of the heavenly family, a companion through eternal ages, of the angels and of Jesus Christ. He who submits to this process will see God's face, and hold communion with Him. {TSA 74.1}

When the truth is received into the heart it commences its leavening, transforming process. Sin will appear hateful. That soul will, through faith and willing obedience to God's commandments, enlist in his behalf a strength more mighty than his own to combine with his human efforts to resist the enemy. {3MR 117.1}

O, that every soul might be awakened, and led to become a subject of the heavenly kingdom, surrendering all to Christ. The word of God gives us no encouragement that a sinner is pardoned in order that he may continue in sin. He is pardoned on condition that he receives Christ, confessing and repenting of his sin and becoming renewed. Many who pass under the name of Christian are not converted. Conversion means renovation. The sinner must enter into the renovating process for himself. He must come to Jesus. He must give up the wrong habits in which he has indulged. He must bring his unsubdued, unchristlike tendencies under the control of Christ, else he cannot be made a laborer together with God. Christ works, and the sinner works. The life of Christ becomes the life of the human agent. It is through the renewing power of the divine Spirit that man is fashioned into a perfect man in Christ. {LLM 103.5}

By many this is called sudden conversion; but it is the result of long wooing by the Spirit of God,--a patient, protracted process. {Mar 70.2}