Luther, and people like him, are not partially converted by choice. They are living up to the light Jesus revealed to them. Such are safe to save. They are in the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded. The Dark Ages makes it hard to learn the truth and to unlearn the lies. Rebirth happens during the process of converting. People experience true, genuine, thorough conversion when they finish learning how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. This is not to say they cannot continue learn more. We will continue to learn throughout eternity.

The passages I posted above make it abundantly clear true, genuine, thorough conversion (as opposed to half conversions) results in people living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. Ellen White is very adamant about thoroughly indoctrinating people before consenting to baptize them and allowing them to join the SDA Church. She gives specific instruction on the best course to pursue, which doctrines to begin with and which ones to end with. Baptismal candidates must manifest the tell-tale signs of true, genuine, thorough conversion - they understand everything Jesus commanded, they are living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

Jesus revealed present truth to Ellen White. But we cannot say it is a sin to live in harmony with truths revealed in the Bible. For example, Jesus permits a flesh food diet in the Bible, but through Ellen White He admonishes people to leave it off if their circumstances make it possible (plenty of vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, legumes).


People are considered "converted" when they complete the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded. They experience rebirth during the process of converting.

We must reveal that we are converted, born again, before we can see heaven. {UL 257.3}

In order to serve God acceptably, we must be "born again." Our natural dispositions, which are in opposition to the Spirit of God, must be put away. We must be made new men and women in Christ Jesus. Our old, unrenewed lives must give place to a new life--a life full of love, of trust, of willing obedience. Think you that such a change is not necessary for entrance into the kingdom of God? Listen to the words of the Majesty of heaven: "Ye must be born again" (John 3:7). "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3). {YRP 24.2}

but when men are born again, when they are truly converted, old things pass away, and behold, all things become new. {ST, June 13, 1892 par. 6}

You need to be converted, to be born again, before you can cooperate with the Lord Jesus. {11MR 311.5}

Mike, what you said does not make any sense. Nobody can see heaven before being converted - born again. To be half-converted is not being converted at all, in the same way that being half-saved is not being saved at all. To what lengths you go to defend your views!

But Mike has been practicing this for years, and much seems based on Catholic doctrine.

Obey the law to reach conversion.
Reconcile with God but without conversion.

Etc.

And now charging Christ for witholding light from Luther.

Mike, you have a long history of fueling argument, debate, controversy, often based upon reams of misplaced copy & pasted EGW quotations, defying the plainest logic. Stirring the pot. You carried this on for years with Tom Ewall, commonly known as trolling.
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Gordon, would you prefer it if I stopped posting here?

Coming from you, this hurts.

What would that solve Mike, and what matters my preference? I'm no Ernie Knolls Son of Thunder false prophet dictator.

Is not a pastor accountable for his teaching? Rosangela should be thanked for offering correction to these misconstrued notions of conversion. It appears she's trying to help, not hurt as you take it. If you insist on posting aberrant doctrine, misapplied SOP, and questions to provoke adventists, what reaction do you expect from conservative Adventists?

Wouldn't it be better to take responsibility - or if error's not evident, to study the Bible for confirmation?

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I'm sorry Mike, it wasn't my intention to hurt you. If I did, please accept my apologies.
I said this because the impression I get is that you make your mind about some point, and to defend that point you have to adjust your own whole system of beliefs. You came to believe that all sins are revealed to the person before his conversion; to defend this, you started to hold that a person cannot be converted without having been thoroughly indoctrinated; and to defend this you now are holding that the new birth is just part of conversion. Don't you think this is going too far?

I actually believe what I have been sharing here. I have believed it since 1995. I even wrote a book. I am not making it up as we go along. Nor am I adjusting, tweaking, changing things to accommodate the passages you post which, on the surface, appear to refute, derail, contradict the passages I post. I have been earnestly studying this for many, many years. I believe what I have been sharing with all my heart, which is why your comment hurt so much. Thank you for the apology. It is greatly appreciated.

Conversion is a long, patient, protracted process which ends in people learning and living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. They continue learning forever thereafter as they grow in grace and mature in the fruits of the Spirit. In the SOP sometimes words are used interchangeably, and sometimes they are used more specifically. Context makes all the difference. The word "converted," for example, is used in different ways. Sometimes it refers to people who are in the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded (Wycliffe, Luther, Miller, etc), and other times it refers to people who have completed the process (Peter, Paul, Matthew, etc).

Since rebirth is required to be saved, and knowing and living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded is not, it stands to reason there is a difference between people who initially experience rebirth and people who have completed the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded. People who die before they learn and live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded will be part of the first resurrection. People who die after learning and living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded will be a part of the special resurrection. And, to be translated alive when Jesus arrives, people must be living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. People like Wycliffe, Luther, and Miller cannot be translated alive because they have not learned how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. Of course if Wycliffe, Luther, and Miller were living during the closing scenes of earth's history they would embrace the truth and be translated alive.

Gordon, thank you. Please go easy on me. I sincerely believe what I have been posting here. The passages I have been posting support it. People who complete the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded are living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. People who experience true, genuine, thorough conversion in God's appointed way do not ignorantly retain and practice some of the sins they cultivated prior to completing the long, patient, protracted process of conversion. People who are in the midst of converting are just as saved as people who have completed the process.