Why is it claimed that God will destroy sinners?
Because the Bible predicts it.

1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So because of Christ's death ALL will be raised from their graves, but not at the same time.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The saved are resurrected at Christ's second coming when Christ comes to take them to His Father's house in heaven. [John 14:1-3. 1 Thess 4)

The rest of the dead live not again till the 1000 years are finished.(Rev. 20:5
They are granted life again for a short space of time in which they rally behind their leader, satan, in a last desperate attempt to overthrow God and gain New Jerusalem by force.

They are halted before the city as the great white Throne appears and shows in a grand panaramic display all that God has done to save them and give them eternal life and how they rejected it and fought against God's call.

Everyone realizes that God is just and fair, that the devil is utterly wrong. But it is not repentance of sin that motives them, only agony over the consequences.

"The whole wicked world stand arraigned at the bar of God, on the charge of high treason against the government of Heaven. They have none to plead their cause; they are without excuse; and the sentence of eternal death is pronounced against them. {GC88 668.2}"

Then God makes a final and complete end of all sin.


Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

" Fire comes down from God out of Heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. [Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10.] The earth's surface seems one molten mass,—a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men,—
“the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion.” [Isaiah 34:8; Proverbs 11:31.] {GC88 672.2}

"In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch,—Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and Heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC88 673.1}

While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the holy city. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. [Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11.] While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, he is to his people both a sun and a shield. [Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11.] {GC88 673.3}




The concept that God would never punish or take away the life from sinners (which He gave them in the first place-- every breath is a gift from God).
To insist that God cannot take away that life fails to recognize in God's character His Holiness and Justice and insists these are in opposition to love.

YES - God will destroy sin. YES. BUT HOW? (did you see the video titled Charizomai?)

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:24 Why God also gave them up...
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them...
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over...

Dedication quotes:
the unutterable anguish that filled his soul at the hiding of his Father's face, speak to man, saying, It is for love of thee {PrT, February 4, 1886 par. 1}
He died of a broken heart. His heart was broken by mental anguish. ...{DA 772.2}
His Father's wrath as He suffered the penalty of the law transgressed. ...It was these that crushed His divine soul. It was the hiding of His Father's face {2T 214.2}
the face of His Father hidden ...{2T 214.3}

Jesus died the death of the sinner. Exactly the same. This is God's wrath. Sin kills, not God.. This fact was never seen until the death of Christ who died the death of a sinner. Yes, God will "destroy" sin and sinners. But how? Did God execute Jesus? NO NO NO. Does anyone here believe God executed Jesus???

Proverbs 25:21-22 If your enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 22 For you shall heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD shall reward you.

Romans 12:20-21 Therefore if your enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

God has overcome evil by doing good.

Galatians 6:7-8 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest. ... history is a fearful illustration of the truth of the words that "whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7. Did men but realize this, they would be careful what seed they sow. {COL 84.4}

It is a wonderful and grand fact that in the laws of God in nature, effect follows cause with unerring certainty. The seed sown will produce a harvest of its kind. So it is in human nature. He that sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption. He who sows to the spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting. If human beings would consider that they are making their own harvest, they would be careful what seed they sow.--Ms 104, 1898. {3MR 342.3}

...sin and disease bear to each other the relationship of cause and effect. {5T 444.2}

Cause and effect. Sin kills. God is not a killer. God will never violate His own law. In the end, sinners will die, but Jesus has demonstrated how God is involved.

"The wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23.) To Adam before his fall the Lord said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17.) "If you transgress My law, death will surely be your punishment." By disobeying God's command, he forfeited his life. {8MR 38.3} [punishment inflicted by God? NO]

It will be seen that Satan's rebellion against God has resulted in ruin to himself, and to all that chose to become his subjects. He has represented that great good would result from transgression; but it will be seen that "the wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23. . . . An end will be made of sin, with all the woe and ruin that have resulted from it. Says the psalmist, "Thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end." Psalm 9:5, 6. {FLB 357.5}
He [Satan] had hoped to break up the plan of salvation; but it was laid too deep. . . . He himself must finally die, and his kingdom be given to Jesus. {FLB 357.6}

Sin results in ruin. God does not have produce the ruin, it is intrinsic to sin.

The death of the spotless Son of God testifies that "the wages of sin is death," that every violation of God's law must receive its just retribution. Christ the sinless became sin for man. He bore the guilt of transgression, and the hiding of His Father's face, until His heart was broken and His life crushed out. {GC 539.3}

And through the provisions of the plan of salvation, all are to be brought forth from their graves. "There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust;" "for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22. But a distinction is made between the two classes that are brought forth. "All that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28, 29. They who have been "accounted worthy" of the resurrection of life are "blessed and holy." "On such the second death hath no power." Revelation 20:6. But those who have not, through repentance and faith, secured pardon, must receive the penalty of transgression--"the wages of sin." They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. Since it is impossible for God, consistently with His justice and mercy, to save the sinner in his sins, He deprives him of the existence which his transgressions have forfeited and of which he has proved himself unworthy. Says an inspired writer: "Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." And another declares: "They shall be as though they had not been." Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. Covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion. {GC 544.2}

Why was sin permitted in the first place? Read Chapter 1 of Patriarchs and Prophets.

Even when he was cast out of heaven, Infinite Wisdom did not destroy Satan. Since only the service of love can be acceptable to God, the allegiance of His creatures must rest upon a conviction of His justice and benevolence. The inhabitants of heaven and of the worlds, being unprepared to comprehend the nature or consequences of sin, could not then have seen the justice of God in the destruction of Satan. Had he been immediately blotted out of existence, some would have served God from fear rather than from love. The influence of the deceiver would not have been fully destroyed, nor would the spirit of rebellion have been utterly eradicated. For the good of the entire universe through ceaseless ages, he must more fully develop his principles, that his charges against the divine government might be seen in their true light by all created beings, and that the justice and mercy of God and the immutability of His law might be forever placed beyond all question. {PP 42.3}

The nature and consequences of sin is that it kills. The nature and consequences of sin is not execution by God. Had God allowed the natural consequences of sin to take place in the beginning, the universe would have served God out of fear, not understanding the nature or consequences of sin. The death of Jesus demonstrated without a doubt, that the wages of sin is death, and not execution by God

APL,

Sometimes context is crucial. Ellen White said a great many things that can be misconstrued when taken out of their appropriate context. She was not a lawyer. Her words are often such that when taken away from their original setting they can appear to say something she never intended.

Unfortunately, many people fail of understanding this as they should. Thus wrong ideas are accepted and promoted to others. This is what I see happening in your post above.

Here is one quote that has been taken out of context in what you posted above as an example, this time with additional context that shows more clearly what Mrs. White was teaching.



Notice that the "cause and effect" follows the line of thought and action prior to the justice/punishment meted out. Did Pharaoh bring plagues upon himself? Did he thus destroy his own cherished son, kingdom and possessions? Hardly. God did that. But Pharaoh had brought the sentence upon himself through his own choices--choices which God had not forced him to make. It is within this context that Ellen White is speaking. Pharaoh made his own choices.

For example, I could illustrate by saying "gravity destroys no one." If you walk off a cliff, gravity will certainly destroy you. But gravity did not force you to walk off that cliff. That was your choice. This is the sense of what Mrs. White is saying.

God will most certainly execute justice and judgment before a watching universe who see it as perfect fairness and righteousness to do so.

Mrs. White is essentially saying that each man or woman destroys his or her own soul. She is not talking about the bodily destruction that God's justice will require afterward. Here is another quote to illustrate.



Notice also that God is not willing that any should perish. Do they perish? Yes. Did God want them to perish? No. Did God find Himself forced to issue the death penalty? Yes. A law without consequences is not a law. God's law demands strict obedience. It was because God's law was inviolable that Jesus was required to die for us to meet its demands that we might find pardon and restoration with Him. Sinners who do not accept His gift will also face the death penalty, even as Jesus did. Will they all be crucified as He was? No. But will they die in the punishment? Yes, they will. Will they have wished this death upon themselves? Hardly. They will not choose death. But they have brought God's judgments upon themselves by their choices made during their earthly probation. They have chosen the way of death, and God must deal with them after the manner of their sins.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green, it is interesting how people, as you do, take the clearest statements of EGW on the character of God and turn it into the character of Satan. God destroys no man, then God comes and actively destroys man. Makes no sense. What God does is withdrawn His protection, the "hiding of the face", the giving up.

The same is true through out the OT. The story of Job should be clear on what God's roll is with sin, disease and death. The plagues of Egypt, same thing. Does God bring on the final plagues? NO. Revelation 7 is clear how God harms the earth. He stops holding back the "winds".

Notice the "cause and effect". This is the justice and punishment. The punishment is intrinsic to sin. God has been withholding punishment.

You gravity example is also clear. The damage done is intrinsic. Same with Sin. When God stops holding back the intrinsic punishment that sin brings, sin will be destroyed. Will sinners die in the punishment? YES. CHRIST DEMONSTRATED THE DEATH THAT A SINNER WILL EXPERIENCE. Look to Jesus's death to explain the wages of sin.

Read the Great Controversy, the first chapter on the destruction of Jerusalem. Of the destruction of Jerusalem, EGW writes, "The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}"

It is clear - The sages of sin is death. This is not execution by God, but intrinsic. The SDA church should be on the forefront of this understand. Yet, most memeber's apply the character of Satan to God. Amazing.

GREEN - DID GOD EXECUTE JESUS, YES OR NO?

Above APL says that to say God will actively put an end to sinners is attributing to Him the character of Satan.

Let's look at another passage.

The story of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.
Korah was the leader in the rebellion with Dathan and Abiram standing at his side. His plot was to overthrow Moses and Aaron as leaders and be chief over Israel himself.

Now it's true that Korah and his followers brought on the trouble, themselves. They resisted divine mercy, ignored God's manifestion of protection and guidance and miraculous deliverance etc. They falsely accused Moses and Aaron and bore a lot of false witness against them before the people. They resisted all pleading to stop their rebellious course. So yes, they brought the punishment on themselves.

But Who was the active agent in delivering the punishment? We know the story of what happened but let's look at it closer.

In defiance of the rule that only priests were to offer incense Korah along with 250 princes of Israel took censors and called all the people together.

" In the name of the God of Israel, Moses now declared, in the hearing of the congregation: "Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind. If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men, then the Lord hath not sent me. But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit, then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord." {PP 400.4}
The eyes of all Israel were fixed upon Moses as they stood, in terror and expectation, awaiting the event. As he ceased speaking, the solid earth parted, and the rebels went down alive into the pit, with all that pertained to them, and "they perished from among the congregation." The people fled, self-condemned as partakers in the sin. {PP 400.5}

So what killed the rebell leaders?

Yes, "their stubborn persistence sealed their doom" but who caused the earth to open right under their tents at the very moment Moses spoke?

The next day the people angerly accuse Moses of "killing the people of God" and are about to do violence to Moses and Aaron when God again intervenes and a great plague kills thousands and is stopped only by Aaron and Moses intercession.

Who sent the plague?

Now please carefully consider the following paragraph:

"Korah and his companions rejected light until they became so blinded that the most striking manifestations of His power were not sufficient to convince them; they attributed them all to human or satanic agency. The same thing was done by the people, who the day after the destruction of Korah and his company came to Moses and Aaron, saying, "Ye have killed the people of the Lord." Notwithstanding they had had the most convincing evidence of God's displeasure at their course, in the destruction of the men who had deceived them, they dared to attribute His judgments to Satandeclaring that through the power of the evil one, Moses and Aaron had caused the death of good and holy men. It was this act that sealed their doom., They had committed the sin against the Holy Spirit, a sin by which man's heart is effectually hardened against the influence of divine grace.

Dedication - I will ask you the same question I asked Green, did Jesus die the death of a sinner, and was it execution by God?

Korah - we have been around this story before. God was protecting the children of Israel in their sojourn in the desert. Just as with the fiery serpents, it was God's restraining hand that prevented them from biting. God "sending the serpents" was really God withdrawing his protection. The same think happened with Korah. Geology shows how this is possible. The area was full of sink holes. God was protecting the people. Korah went beyond where God could protect him any longer. The "hiding of the God's face", the withdrawal of protection, and Korah et al died. God's wrath is as it is explained in Romans 1.

It is no part of Christ's mission to compel men to receive Him. It is Satan, and men actuated by his spirit, who seek to compel the conscience. Under a pretense of zeal for righteousness, men who are confederated with evil angels sometimes bring suffering upon their fellow men in order to convert them to their ideas of religion; but Christ is ever showing mercy, ever seeking to win by the revealing of His love. He can admit no rival in the soul, nor accept of partial service; but He desires only voluntary service, the willing surrender of the heart under the constraint of love. {AA 541.1}

It is no part of Christ's mission to compel men to receive Him. It is Satan, and men actuated by his spirit, that seek to compel the conscience. Under a pretense of zeal for righteousness, men who are confederate with evil angels bring suffering upon their fellow men, in order to convert them to their ideas of religion; but Christ is ever showing mercy, ever seeking to win by the revealing of His love. He can admit no rival in the soul, nor accept of partial service; but He desires only voluntary service, the willing surrender of the heart under the constraint of love. There can be no more conclusive evidence that we possess the spirit of Satan than the disposition to hurt and destroy those who do not appreciate our work, or who act contrary to our ideas. {DA 487.3}

So, Green and Dedication are convinced, that if you do not love God, He will kill you. But hey, He won't compel you to love Him. He only seeks to win you by love. But if you don't love Him, He will kill you. This is the atributes of the devil applied to God. Why is this so hard to see?

How does God cause the last plagues?
Four mighty angels are still holding the four winds of the earth. Terrible destruction is forbidden to come in full. The accidents by land and by sea; the loss of life, steadily increasing, by storm, by tempest, by railroad disaster, by conflagration; the terrible floods, the earthquakes, and the winds will be the stirring up of the nations to one deadly combat, while the angels hold the four winds, forbidding the terrible power of Satan to be exercised in its fury until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads. {ML 308.2}

Judgments Come When God Removes His Protection:
I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress, and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey. And storm and tempest both by sea and land will be, for Satan has come down in great wrath. He is at work. He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of. {14MR 3.1}

So basically you are saying God and Satan worked together in the destruction of Korah and the rebels?
At the precise time "the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the congregation" and Moses declares "Hereby you shall know that the LORD has sent me" Satan presses the "sink hole" bottom and the rebels who rebelled against God disappear.





PP. 405
" Notwithstanding they had had the most convincing evidence of God's displeasure at their course in the destruction of the men who had deceived them, they dared to attribute His judgments to Satan, declaring that through the power of the evil one, Moses and Aaron had caused the death of good and holy men. It was this act that sealed their doom. They had committed the sin against the Holy Spirit."

Let's analyze just what happens at the final judgment.
God's wrath is His aversion to sin. God is the agent who manifests wrath, and the agony produced by this wrath kills sinners. Therefore, to me, it does not make sense to ask if God kills people by His wrath or if He delivers them up to be killed by His wrath. God will put the wicked in His presence knowing that His glory will make them die because of their sin. It's the same as putting someone in the gas chamber and then discussing if you are killing the person with the gas or delivering up the person to be killed by the gas.

Of course we are NOT to take vengence into our own hands.

What we must realize is that God is the source of life.
There is NO life outside of God.
We, as sinners, have no right to life whatsoever.
We are given life only as a gift of grace so we can have a chance to choose God and eternal life, (an offer we don't even deserve) or reject that awesome gift, and chose sin and death.

In the end those who choose sin and death are only getting what they chose and this is fully revealed to them before their choice is granted.

Taking quotes that show that sin, satan etc all bring death and destruction, and saying God has no right to end sin in a decisive action is denying the holiness and justice of God.

I would still add that God is not going to destroy sinners. He is going to destroy sin. Those who cling to sin will perish in its destruction. But sin will not destroy itself - God will destroy it.