Amen! I agree. Beginning the process of conversion is required for salvation. Thorough indoctrination, however, is not. The process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded takes time, especially when deeply laid lies have been innocently, ignorantly believed (Peter, Luther, Miller, etc). In this day and age of light and truth Jesus has commissioned SDA members and leaders to enlighten everyone everywhere. A thorough indoctrination is required to get baptized and join the church. True, genuine, thorough conversion is the result of learning how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

So true.

Did Jesus command us not to eat in accordance with the dietary laws in the Bible?


Please share what you believe is the truth about rebirth and conversion.

1. “We must gain the victory over self, crucify the affections and lusts; and then begins the union of the soul with Christ.” (5T 47)

2. “Christ will come into the heart and abide there if you will but cleanse the soul temple of every defilement.” (ST 11-30-1888)

3. “The heart must be emptied of every defilement, and cleansed for the indwelling of the Spirit.” (FLB 333)

4. “We must empty the soul temple of every defilement, and let the Spirit of God take full possession of the heart, that the character may be transformed.” (RH 4-26-1892)

5. “The renewed heart will have no plants of selfishness to cultivate.” (RH 5-5-1896)

6. “He who abides in Christ, and has Christ abiding in his heart by faith, cannot retain the same unlovely traits of character as were made manifest in his life before he had a connection with Christ.” (ST 8-21-1893)

7. “If we are doers of the word of God, we shall understand that we cannot retain any sinful habit, or indulge in any crooked or guileful way.” (ST 12-25-1893)

8. “If we would become Christians, we cannot retain our natural habits, and hold fast to the weakness of our character that dishonors our Saviour.” (YI 9-14-1893)

9. “The sins that were practiced before conversion, are to be put off, with the old man. With the new man, Christ Jesus, are to be put on ‘kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering.’” (SD 300)

10. “When we are born from above, the same mind will be in us that was in Jesus, the mind that led Him to humble Himself that we might be saved.” (DA 330)

11. “The sinful nature is to be kept under the control of the Spirit of God.” (16 SpTB 18)

12. “He did not leave us to retain our defects and deformities of character, or to serve Him as best we could in the corruption of our sinful nature.” (RH 3-18-1902)

13. “Human nature is vile, and man’s character must be changed before it can harmonize with the pure and holy in God’s immortal kingdom. This transformation is the new birth. If man by faith takes hold of the divine love of God, he becomes a new creature through Christ Jesus. The world is overcome, human nature is subdued, and Satan is vanquished.” (2SP 133)

14. “It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ’s nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression.” (UL 18)

15. “If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in the heart, our feelings, our thoughts, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God. The sanctified heart is in harmony with the precepts of God’s law.” (AA 563)

16. “Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ.” (RH 4-12-1892)

17. “The evils of fashionable society have a tendency to corrupt, but every true follower of Christ, every one who has ‘this hope in him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure,’ so that not a taint of defilement will be found in his thoughts, or upon his lips, in his heart, or in his character.” (16 SpTB 5)

In light of the 17 passages posted above, what point in the long, patient, protracted process of conversion is Ellen White describing - 1) Beginning, 2) Middle, or 3) End?

My choice is 1) Beginning.

When the Spirit of God controls mind and heart, the converted soul breaks forth into a new song; for he realizes that in his experience the promise of God has been fulfilled, that his transgression has been forgiven, his sin covered. He has exercised repentance toward God for the violation of the divine law, and faith toward Christ, who died for man's justification. "Being justified by faith," he has "peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1. {AA 476.2}

But because this experience is his, the Christian is not therefore to fold his hands, content with that which has been accomplished for him. He who has determined to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil. Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory. {AA 476.3}

"Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory." Please note that she doesn't say converted people will discover certain of their cultivated habits are sinful, that they have been innocently, ignorantly cultivating sinful habits. This point is important.

EGW says Peter was converted before Pentecost (probably a few hours after his denial of Christ):

In the answers that Peter gave to the Lord's thrice-repeated question, a different spirit is manifested from what we find in the boastful assurances before the crucifixion of Christ. Peter was a converted man, and showed in his life that transforming grace had taken possession of his heart. {RH, April 7, 1891 par. 11}

Like Arnold, I believe that EGW is referring to a deepening on his conversion, rather than a new kind of conversion. But EGW said that nobody will see heaven before he/she is converted. Now, at which of his "conversions" could Peter go to heaven?

She also says he was "truly converted" the day Jesus said, "Follow me."


Again, her use of the word "converted" varies depending on the context. I like Arnold's idea of conversion being something that deepens. Repentance is something that deepens, so why not conversion! I believe people who begin the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded are in a saved state. If they should die before they completely convert they will come up in the first resurrection. Peter was probably in a saved state before he ever laid eyes on Jesus. No doubt he was serving God sincerely, with all his heart.

I also believe the 17 passages posted above describe people who experience rebirth and begin the process of converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded.

Rebirth is required to enter heaven. Completely converting to obeying everything Jesus commanded is not. This distinction demonstrates the difference between rebirth and conversion. Nevertheless, there are times when Ellen White uses the two words interchangeably. Context is important.

Your question seems awkward, "command us not to eat". Could you re-word it?