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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14864
07/06/05 06:00 PM
07/06/05 06:00 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote: If Satan presents his own work as God's, how do we know when it is Satan acting and when it is God?
MM: Technically, it wouldn't matter. Why? Because God is ultimately in control.
Tom: If it doesn't matter whether God does something or Satan does something, what's the difference between good and evil, and Satan and God?
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14865
07/06/05 07:55 PM
07/06/05 07:55 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Essentially there is no difference so far as God being in control. Of course, the differences between Jesus and Satan as individual beings are night and day.
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14866
07/06/05 10:00 PM
07/06/05 10:00 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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What are the differences? According to you we can't discern the difference, correct? And they are "technically the same". So how could they be as different as night and day?
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14867
07/06/05 10:52 PM
07/06/05 10:52 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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God has allowed Satan to harass and kill people over and over again for the last 6,000 years, right? Well, this insight doesn't mean Jesus is a murderer, but it does mean God is in control. And, God assumes responsibility for everything He allows Satan to do. The devil isn't free to torment people whenever and however he pleases. No, he must operate within the restrictions placed upon him by God. The devil is doing nothing more and nothing less than God permits. Satan is a very obedient devil, isn't he?
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14868
07/06/05 11:07 PM
07/06/05 11:07 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Of course all created beings can do but what God permits. And it's also true that God accepts responsibility for all that happens in His universe. This is in accordance to His gracious character. In reality, Satan is responsible for all the evil that exists. The Great Controversy is about demonstrating this reality. However, Satan accepts responsibility for none of what he has done, casting blame instead upon God. God is the opposite. He is not responsible for evil in any way. Yet He graciously accepts the responsibility for that for which He is not at fault. quote: I restored that which I took not away. Ps. 69:4
The judgement will show that God was innocent of any and all wrongdoing. He is, and never has been, in any way responsible for sin, in spite of the fact that He has graciously taken it upon Himself to fix things, regardless of the cost (which was unimaginably heavy).
Regarding Satan being "an obedient devil", no, that's in no ways true. Satan is disobedient, a murderer, thief, and liar from the beginning, and he in no way reflects God's will or character, in spite God's ability to work things to His own purposes despite the evil acts or intentions of those who fight against Him.
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14869
07/06/05 11:44 PM
07/06/05 11:44 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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It's one thing to say God can bring good out of evil, which is true, but it is quite another thing to say that He regulates evil itself. In other words, Satan cannot do anything more or less than what God permits him to do. You're right, Satan isn't an obedient little demon. Instead, God commissions holy angels to make sure Satan doesn't cross the boundaries that God has established. The fact it is God who determines how much evil is permitted is evidence that God is control of evil and Satan.
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14870
07/06/05 11:55 PM
07/06/05 11:55 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I'm sure noone will dispute that Satan cannot do anything that God does not permit him to do. Satan would kill us all if he could, because he hates God and he knows God loves us.
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Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements
#14871
07/21/05 02:36 AM
07/21/05 02:36 AM
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OP
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
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Back to this topic's purposes:
Concerning the "apparent contradiction" of king Saul killing himself and God saying He killed him:
God released His sustaining protection because Saul rejected God, sought Satan's helpers for "light". But this was after a loooong record of rejecting Truth, being bloodthirsty and self-centered.
This final release of protection did leave Saul vulnerable to Satan's suggestions and therefore Saul killed himself out of fear of what would become of him when the enemy troops fell on him.
BUT...The secondary point is that it is written in the Word in both ways in order that we can arrive at this conversation.
The paradoxes are on purpose.
God is never surprised; but He never forces love, either, or manipulates people. He leaves then to their own choices.
We all get what we want, in the End.
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