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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: Johann]
#148634
01/01/13 10:00 PM
01/01/13 10:00 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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It appears like you evaluate what I wrote only by considering the first part, taking no consideration to what I added: "when it is practical and healthy." Mini-skirts were popularized in the 1960s as a practical measure to make sex more convenient in the middle of the day without the need of removing everything. Mary Quant, who made them popular, herself said she didn't want to "wait until dark" to "go to bed with a man." In the summertime, they're likely "healthy" as well, being cooler. Certainly they do not drag in the filth of the streets, which would be unhealthful. And mini-skirts require so much less cloth to make them and provide for ease of walking without hindering the gait. So, mini-skirts are practical and healthful. They are certainly the standard in many parts of the world, such as in Taiwan where the ladies have adopted them in conjunction with full-length leotards/tights. Now, if Ellen White were to have advocated such a view as you have implied, she could be said to support the wearing of mini-skirts. Is this where we want to go? "Practical and healthy" is incomplete without the added concept of "principled" and/or "moral." Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: Johann]
#148635
01/01/13 10:18 PM
01/01/13 10:18 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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What Johann presented was the Danish royalty wearing modest dress...It even fits EGW's recommendations! No, Johann didn't present modest dress, merely "covering the knees". One could claim this as modest when compared to undergarments or bikinis, if given to argument. But "covering the knees" is a far stretch from the modest, practical and healthy attire detailed by EGW. "Covering the knees" falls short of complete covering of the limbs, etc. Why mind when ministers hold worldly opinions? It's not 'reprehensible', it's just a fact of life. But they should tell the truth..."I disagree with EGW and favour the Danish royalty as my guide", etc. _______________________
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: gordonb1]
#148638
01/01/13 10:26 PM
01/01/13 10:26 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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Johann is correct, that when the world dresses with God's approval, it is safe to imitate that dress.
That's what he said. But "covering the knees" alone does not meet the standard.
_______________________________
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: dedication]
#148641
01/01/13 11:02 PM
01/01/13 11:02 PM
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Posts: 936
Quebec
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Men and women are created differently. Men are stimulated by sight. This is why Jesus told the men of His day, "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).
Men are stimulated by sight. The average man is attracted to a woman physically, before he is connected to her emotionally.
Women, on the other hand, are stimulated by the interested look, the sweet words, the touch.
Pornography is sold mainly to men -- not exclusively of course, but it is men who are the driving consumers of all types of pornography.
So in scripture we find that God has given certain commands to women regarding their appearance, so they will not stimulate men.
1 Timothy 2:9, which states, "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly clothing; "
And God has given different commands to men, such as in First Corinthians 7:1, which says, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman."
So while a woman is commanded to dress a certain way so the man is not stimulated, the man is commanded to act a certain way, to behave a certain way, so the woman is not stimulated.
I have often wondered about the contradictions women are giving --
1. They rightly demand that they be regarded as intellegent people with character and talents etc -- NOT as sex objects.
2. But then they dress like sex objects seemingly getting their "self-worth" by how many men they can get to look at them.
1. They rightly demand that they not be exploited sexually.
2. But then young girls (and adult women)dress like prostitutes when they go out. These young girls who dress in such a provocative way are putting themselves in danger.
And when mothers dress their little girls to look like hockers one can't help but realize the morality of our society is hitting an all time low.
Girls and women may think that's the way to "get a man" but the probability is extremely high that they will get the wrong type of man. Worthy thoughts so far. But no distinction is made between behaviour of the Christian and the non-Christian. 'Average man' or 'average woman' merely references the world. The same language and comparison is used in the Church, so not surprising that we lump all of humanity together. It's how we've been taught by family, society and ministry - no distinction between the reprobate and the redeemed. "Men are like this, women like that" - from the universities of the world - no allowance for the gospel message to offer a better choice. So the churches are in a gender stalemate, seeking solutions like women's ordination, implementing wordly policy, grasping at straws. Instead of urging transformative change as taught in the Bible...the very core of Christ's message missed by the Church. _____________________
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: gordonb1]
#148643
01/02/13 12:29 AM
01/02/13 12:29 AM
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Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada
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Worthy thoughts so far. But no distinction is made between behaviour of the Christian and the non-Christian. 'Average man' or 'average woman' merely references the world. Christians are biologically "average" men and women. So what should be the distinction? Obviously the Christian is to look to God's commands (several of which I quoted from scripture) and His transforming power, while the world feels no responsibility for that. The reason this is even being addressed here -- is because Christians need to be different -- dressing in a responsible way to glorify their Creator.
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#148644
01/02/13 12:38 AM
01/02/13 12:38 AM
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Canada
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I do not recall the exact wording, but not long ago I read where Ellen G. White stated that our women should follow the worldly standard when it is practical and healthy. Was she wrong in giving us such advise? I find this type of statement to be reprehensible. If Ellen White has said something so apparently contradictory of the Word of God, then please furnish the actual quote for us to see and judge for ourselves. It is wrong to misstate her words or to misapply them and teach others to do so. Your statement here is so out of context as to provide no context at all. Please find the statement. Without it, I reject the entire concept you have claimed she supported. I don't believe it until proven otherwise. Quoting EGW: "I beg of our people to walk carefully and circumspectly before God. Follow the customs in dress so far as they conform to health principles. Let our sisters dress plainly, as many do, having the dress of good, durable material, appropriate for this age, and let not the dress question fill the mind. Our sisters should dress with simplicity. They should clothe themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety. Give to the world a living illustration of the inward adorning of the grace of God. {CG 414.1} Follow Prevailing Customs if Modest, Healthful, and Convenient.--Christians should not take pains to make themselves a gazingstock by dressing differently from the world. But if, when following out their convictions of duty in respect to dressing modestly and healthfully, they find themselves out of fashion, they should not change their dress in order to be like the world; but they should manifest a noble independence and moral courage to be right, if all the world differ from them. {CG 414.2} If the world introduce a modest, convenient, and healthful mode of dress, which is in accordance with the Bible, it will not change our relation to God or to the world to adopt such a style of dress. Christians should follow Christ and make their dress conform to God's Word. They should shun extremes. They should humbly pursue a straightforward course, irrespective of applause or of censure, and should cling to the right because of its own merits. {CG 414.3} Avoid Extremes.--Do not occupy your time by endeavoring to follow all the foolish fashions in dress. Dress neatly and becomingly, but do not make yourself the subject of remarks either by being overdressed or by dressing in a lax, untidy manner. Act as though you knew that the eye of heaven is upon you, and that you are living under the approbation or disapprobation of God. {CG 415.1}
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: dedication]
#148645
01/02/13 12:54 AM
01/02/13 12:54 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Thank you, dedication. It was quotations like these I had in mind.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: Johann]
#148648
01/02/13 01:31 AM
01/02/13 01:31 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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dedication said: But women also need to be responsible for their actions and influence.
A fact of life is that men are programed to respond to sight. I asked: How are men "programmed"? I don't disagree with your comment, but how is it men are "programmed"? dedication replies: Men and women are created differently. Men are stimulated by sight. This is why Jesus told the men of His day, "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).
Men are stimulated by sight. The average man is attracted to a woman physically, before he is connected to her emotionally. You said that men were "created" differently. Do you think that God created men to be more tempted by sight than a woman? I don't think so. Our observations are of post-fall humanity. Before the fall, there would be no temptation, not even a thought to transgress the law to commit adultery. Our current state is post-fall. When you say, "men are programmed", I would agree. How are men "programmed"? It is in the DNA. Are are preprogrammed to transgress. We inherit these tendancies. They are not orginal, they were not placed there by God. There are indeed genetic studies that can show our propensites to sin. The same studies imply that our genetics to not force us to have specific behaviors, but our genetics give us the propensity. If it is in our DNA, and God did not create it, then where did it come from? I think science has given us the the clue, if we interpret the data from a Biblical viewpoint.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: APL]
#148649
01/02/13 01:36 AM
01/02/13 01:36 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace?
[Re: gordonb1]
#148650
01/02/13 02:19 AM
01/02/13 02:19 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Johann is correct, that when the world dresses with God's approval, it is safe to imitate that dress.
That's what he said. But "covering the knees" alone does not meet the standard.
_______________________________
How can you avoid covering the knees when the dress reaches between the ankles and the knees?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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