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Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: Johann] #148652
01/02/13 03:15 AM
01/02/13 03:15 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
You said that men were "created" differently. Do you think that God created men to be more tempted by sight than a woman? I don't think so. Our observations are of post-fall humanity. Before the fall, there would be no temptation, not even a thought to transgress the law to commit adultery.

Do you think it was possible for Adam or Eve to have committed adultery when just the two of them existed in the Garden of Eden?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: Green Cochoa] #148653
01/02/13 03:34 AM
01/02/13 03:34 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: APL
You said that men were "created" differently. Do you think that God created men to be more tempted by sight than a woman? I don't think so. Our observations are of post-fall humanity. Before the fall, there would be no temptation, not even a thought to transgress the law to commit adultery.

Do you think it was possible for Adam or Eve to have committed adultery when just the two of them existed in the Garden of Eden?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Do you think they would remain the only two forever?

You don't seem to have much respect or trust for God's handiwork. Without the fall, there would have been no adultery, not even the temptation even with 10 billions humans around.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: APL] #148659
01/02/13 06:48 AM
01/02/13 06:48 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Much of the to do about women's equality, women in the workplace, and women being ordained centers on the modern Eves' rejection of their God-assigned duties. An interesting statement from the pen of inspiration which touches on this is the following from Ministry of Healing (1905).

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
In Israel, industrial training was regarded as a duty. Every father was required to teach his sons some useful trade. The greatest men in Israel were trained to industrial pursuits. A knowledge of the duties pertaining to housewifery was considered essential for every woman. And skill in these duties was regarded as an honor to women of the highest station. {MH 185.3}
Various industries were taught in the schools of the prophets, and many of the students sustained themselves by manual labor. {MH 186.1}


This statement highlights distinctions in duties between men and women. Women who do their noble work in the home would not be temptresses for men who are laboring outside the home.

Tragically, many modern women feel that "housewifery" is beneath them. They want to do everything that a man would ordinarily do.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: Green Cochoa] #148660
01/02/13 07:55 AM
01/02/13 07:55 AM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
It so happens that my wife has four sisters, all of them are now past the age of 70. Two of these are widows, and both of them had to "bury" the car with their husbands, who had firmly believed that driving a car was only the task of a man. Neither one of the other two are able to drive the car, due to the same convictions. Now that their husbands are getting older they are not always able to drive.

My wife and I take turns driving, and this is a great relief for both of us. Today we will drive to town to visit a sister who has been a widow for 26 years without a car.

Would we have a better world if no females could drive a car?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: Johann] #148666
01/02/13 02:21 PM
01/02/13 02:21 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

Two ditches:

One of legalism & intolerance, the other of liberalism & cheap grace.

________________

Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: Green Cochoa] #148675
01/02/13 03:14 PM
01/02/13 03:14 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Mini-skirts were popularized in the 1960s as a practical measure to make sex more convenient in the middle of the day without the need of removing everything. Mary Quant, who made them popular, herself said she didn't want to "wait until dark" to "go to bed with a man." In the summertime, they're likely "healthy" as well, being cooler. Certainly they do not drag in the filth of the streets, which would be unhealthful.
I'd like you to show from Ellen White's writings where mini-skirts are healthy. Or is this just a thought since they don't drag the streets?

Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: kland] #148678
01/02/13 03:46 PM
01/02/13 03:46 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Mini-skirts were popularized in the 1960s as a practical measure to make sex more convenient in the middle of the day without the need of removing everything. Mary Quant, who made them popular, herself said she didn't want to "wait until dark" to "go to bed with a man." In the summertime, they're likely "healthy" as well, being cooler. Certainly they do not drag in the filth of the streets, which would be unhealthful.
I'd like you to show from Ellen White's writings where mini-skirts are healthy. Or is this just a thought since they don't drag the streets?

If you are looking for a specific mention of miniskirts, you won't find it. Mrs. White does not mention them. They were invented in the 1960s. However, if you are looking for a reference to a healthful skirt, note the following statement.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
The limbs, which should have even more covering than any other portion of the body, because farthest from the center of circulation, are often not suitably protected; while over the vital organs, where there is naturally more warmth than in other portions of the body, there is an undue proportion of covering. The heavy draperies often worn upon the back, induce heat and congestion in the sensitive organs which lie beneath. This fashionable attire is one of the greatest causes of disease among women. Perfect health depends upon perfect circulation. If the limbs are properly clothed, fewer skirts are needed. These should not be so heavy as to impede the motion of the limbs, nor so long as to gather the dampness and filth of the ground, and their weight should be suspended from the shoulders. The dress should fit easily, obstructing neither the circulation of the blood, nor a free, full, natural respiration. The feet should be suitably protected from cold and damp. Clad in this way, we can take exercise in the open air, even in the dew of morning or evening, or after a fall of snow or rain, without fear of taking cold. Exercise in the invigorating air of heaven is necessary to a healthy circulation of the blood. It is the best safeguard against colds, coughs, and the internal congestions which lay the foundation of so many diseases. True dress reform regulates every article of clothing. If those ladies who are failing in health would lay off their fashionable robes, clothe themselves suitably for out-door enjoyment, and exercise in the open air, carefully at first, increasing the amount as they can endure it, many of them might recover health, and live to bless the world with their example and the work of their hands. {CTBH 89.1}


In agreement with the principles outlined above, a miniskirt is not heavy, does not catch the dampness of the ground, and does not impede free and natural movement. As it does not provide much warmth, it would be unsuitable in the winter. But in the summertime, there is no reason provided in the above statement to prohibit it, and much, in fact, to promote it.

Please understand that I am NOT promoting miniskirts. My object here with this example is to illustrate the need of balance in interpretation of the spirit of prophecy, and this balance necessarily includes taking all of the statements on a given subject together in their totality. One statement alone is often insufficient to provide a clear view. Another statement will add to it and help us to understand better.

Note that the statement I quoted above is focused strictly on health and makes no mention of modesty nor of morality. So from a health standpoint strictly, miniskirts would not be prohibited. But when we move to the modesty issue we have a clear prohibition against such an article of clothing.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: Green Cochoa] #148683
01/02/13 08:47 PM
01/02/13 08:47 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

From a health perspective, EGW could not have endorsed mini-skirts (or t-shirts, etc.)
because this would contradict her counsel to keep all limbs covered to balance circulation, regardless of season.
________________________

Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: gordonb1] #148685
01/02/13 09:27 PM
01/02/13 09:27 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: gordonb1

From a health perspective, EGW could not have endorsed mini-skirts (or t-shirts, etc.)
because this would contradict her counsel to keep all limbs covered to balance circulation, regardless of season.
________________________

Right, but it's a part of the miniskirt fad to wear the leotards/tights as well. That would fulfill that portion of the counsel. I'm not sure that Ellen White would have required that limbs be fully covered in summer either. Where do you find that?

If you work in the tropics, are you required to wear long sleeves?

I've never enjoyed seeing women's armpits (or men's for that matter), in any season. But I have no issue with short sleeves. Covering the armpits is simply for modesty...well, and maybe for aesthetics too. smile But there's no need to cover the arms to prevent the cold when the weather is in the upper 80s to 90s and the humidity is so high that your sweat just sticks to you while your body nearly overheats.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Should women be allowed to entice men in the workplace? [Re: gordonb1] #148686
01/02/13 09:35 PM
01/02/13 09:35 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: gordonb1

Two ditches:

One of legalism & intolerance, the other of liberalism & cheap grace.

________________


Do you have a good quotation for this exact measurement of people?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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