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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Rick H]
#148766
01/05/13 04:58 PM
01/05/13 04:58 PM
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Iceland
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For one who has the benefit of SOP and true text to compare versus deleted or changed text, its much easier to know the context or what was meant such as when Christ tells the Thief on the cross that he will be in heaven. But for new Christians or those struggling with truth, it can be a unnecessary burden to deal with. Better to start out with the truest text than one filled with deletions and changes, that is my personal view. True, but where do you find a Bible where that comma has been placed in the right spot? (With the exception of a Bible translated by a SDA scholar - and the one by the Watchtower). Then we should disregard all Bibles, treating them as "junk food"? Thats why we must use the power of discernment through the Holy Spirit which God gives his children. You have still not answered my question. . .
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Johann]
#148778
01/05/13 09:13 PM
01/05/13 09:13 PM
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[quote=Rick H] For one who has the benefit of SOP and true text to compare versus deleted or changed text, its much easier to know the context or what was meant such as when Christ tells the Thief on the cross that he will be in heaven. But for new Christians or those struggling with truth, it can be a unnecessary burden to deal with. Better to start out with the truest text than one filled with deletions and changes, that is my personal view. True, but where do you find a Bible where that comma has been placed in the right spot? (With the exception of a Bible translated by a SDA scholar - and the one by the Watchtower). Then we should disregard all Bibles, treating them as "junk food"? Thats why we must use the power of discernment through the Holy Spirit which God gives his children. You have still not answered my question. . . With all due respect as Gods anointed as a pastor, I give you the best answer that I can. God uses men and mans language to write which is imperfect at best, and as long as that happens, then we have to go with what we have been given. Now in all cases and circumstances, it is the Holy Spirit which guides to the truth, but in my opinion it helps to read Gods Word in the truest text available, as we see how it changed the course in the time of the Reformation. I have tried to present this and that is my purpose in this thread, each one must choose what they will do with the understanding given in this study, as Gods leads them. So that God is glorified, and we are blessed, that is what compels me, not to prove one version better or worse.
Last edited by Rick H; 01/05/13 09:34 PM.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Rick H]
#148791
01/06/13 08:17 AM
01/06/13 08:17 AM
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My question remains: Where have you found a correct rendition of all the Bible, including Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Johann]
#148798
01/06/13 04:22 PM
01/06/13 04:22 PM
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There are mistakes in the KJV, Johann. I don't think anyone here is denying that, nor calling it an infallible translation. However, while you strain at the comma you swallow the camel in the other versions. Stuff like this: by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, (Ephesians 2:15) These perversions of the Bible wish to erase God's law--the very law Jesus died to uphold. Such texts as this which try to abolish God's law inform us as to the diabolical influence behind their translation. Satan wishes to abolish God's law. Any version of the Bible trying to do so, against Jesus' explicit statement that not one jot or tittle would pass from the law, is an untrustworthy perversion. Now, coming back to the "misplaced comma," I can find a sensible explanation for the text with the comma in either place. Take note of the definition for the Greek word παράδεισος (paradeisos): 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
5) heaven Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#148800
01/06/13 07:52 PM
01/06/13 07:52 PM
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There are mistakes in the KJV, Johann. Did I mention the KJV?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Johann]
#148801
01/06/13 08:57 PM
01/06/13 08:57 PM
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SDA
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There are mistakes in the KJV, Johann. Did I mention the KJV? You quoted it. Were you trying to hide that fact by not mentioning it? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Johann]
#148806
01/07/13 10:29 AM
01/07/13 10:29 AM
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My question remains: Where have you found a correct rendition of all the Bible, including Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. Only in Gods own hand will you find that, so we will have to wait till it is given in heaven, as mans language is insufficient and imperfect.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#148813
01/07/13 06:01 PM
01/07/13 06:01 PM
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Active Member 2024
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Posts: 6,512
Midland
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Again Green, you should only read the Hebrew and Greek. If you were able to read the Hebrew and Greek you might realize where the real issue lies here. It starts with the Hebrew and Greek alright, but reading them might still land you with a corrupt version. You see, the corruptions were made in the Hebrew and Greek before they were translated to our modern versions in English. Again, reading a particular language does not solve the problem. I can read the Bible in Korean or Chinese and still be reading from the corrupted manuscripts. In fact, I am not aware of a correct translation in Chinese. This might explain why we have so few Christians among the Chinese speakers, and why the majority of true, solid Christians in south-east Asia speak English. I'm surprised you said that. For some reason it sounded to me in the past that you were discussing English words and even put a qualification exception of other languages in your comments. I actually agree with what you say regarding the underlying Hebrew and Greek. (Not the part about why so few Chinese Christians, though). But how do you determine what is correct in translating for other languages? What do you go with? There are mistakes in the KJV, Johann. I don't think anyone here is denying that, nor calling it an infallible translation. How do you know where the wrong parts are? How do you know what is wrong and what is right? How do you know what the translation should be?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Rick H]
#148814
01/07/13 06:04 PM
01/07/13 06:04 PM
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Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
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With all due respect as Gods anointed as a pastor, I give you the best answer that I can. God uses men and mans language to write which is imperfect at best, and as long as that happens, then we have to go with what we have been given. Now in all cases and circumstances, it is the Holy Spirit which guides to the truth, but in my opinion it helps to read Gods Word in the truest text available, as we see how it changed the course in the time of the Reformation. I have tried to present this and that is my purpose in this thread, each one must choose what they will do with the understanding given in this study, as Gods leads them. So that God is glorified, and we are blessed, that is what compels me, not to prove one version better or worse. those which used the true text of the Textus Receptus (Majority Text) or those which picked up the Alexandrian manuscripts (Minority Text) I could agree it is good to use the truest text available. I just disagree with how you determined it. And I have not found where you have established such other than saying more is better. More at what year?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#148819
01/07/13 10:45 PM
01/07/13 10:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 178
Deer Park, WA
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Interesting how early in this thread, statements were made to discredit the Septuagint as being corrupted by those in Alexandria. What is interesting is that it was the use of the Septuagint by the Christians that led to the Jews rejecting it, particularly regarding Messianic prophecies that pointed to Jesus. Here is an article about how the "erroneous" Septuagint rendering of Isaiah 7:14 was used by Christians (including the Apostle Matthew) to validate the virgin birth of Jesus -- The Septuagint and the "Virgin-Birth" Fraud. On the other hand: In the few verses where almah appears, the word clearly denotes a young woman who is not married but is of marriageable age. Although almah does not implicitly denote virginity, it is never used in the Scriptures to describe a "young, presently married woman." It is important to remember that in the Bible, a young Jewish woman of marriageable age was presumed to be chaste.
Last edited by Dave Mullbock; 01/07/13 10:55 PM.
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