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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #150020
02/25/13 03:53 AM
02/25/13 03:53 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Scripture shows us where to go for salvation, but salvation is not in themselves, but in Jesus Christ.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #150023
02/25/13 07:33 AM
02/25/13 07:33 AM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Johann
Scripture shows us where to go for salvation, but salvation is not in themselves, but in Jesus Christ.


I now notice it would have been better if I had said "in them."


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #150027
02/25/13 03:00 PM
02/25/13 03:00 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
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Green, you err.

"even it is wrong". What is "it"? Compare context.

Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Daryl] #150038
02/25/13 03:39 PM
02/25/13 03:39 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Nova Scotia, Canada
Perhaps I should also ask this:

Was there ever a pure unadultered translation of both the OT and NT Scriptures from their original languages?
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Is there a pure unadulterated translation anywhere?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Daryl] #150049
02/25/13 05:15 PM
02/25/13 05:15 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl
Perhaps I should also ask this:

Was there ever a pure unadultered translation of both the OT and NT Scriptures from their original languages?
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Is there a pure unadulterated translation anywhere?
Meaning that you think there may be one of either the OT or NT or in non-original languages? Assuming you meant and/or, but not sure why you needed the qualification.

Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: kland] #150050
02/25/13 05:54 PM
02/25/13 05:54 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Nova Scotia, Canada
I was referring to the language used by the various Bible writers which obviously was first translated by somebody, or a group of people, into their own language, and then subsequently translated into other languages by others.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Daryl] #150062
02/25/13 11:24 PM
02/25/13 11:24 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl
I was referring to the language used by the various Bible writers which obviously was first translated by somebody, or a group of people, into their own language, and then subsequently translated into other languages by others.


The Jews considered every word in Canon to be Holy and would not changed them so the meaning would stay as intended. Now for example, look at the following and tell me what you see....

(Genesis 3:15, K)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

(Genesis 3:15, N)
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

(Genesis 3:15, D)
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."

Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Rick H] #150073
02/26/13 11:06 AM
02/26/13 11:06 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: Daryl
I was referring to the language used by the various Bible writers which obviously was first translated by somebody, or a group of people, into their own language, and then subsequently translated into other languages by others.


The Jews considered every word in Canon to be Holy and would not changed them so the meaning would stay as intended. Now for example, look at the following and tell me what you see....

(Genesis 3:15, K)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

(Genesis 3:15, N)
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

(Genesis 3:15, D)
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."


Rick that's an interesting translation. I have to verify this text more closely and see if the D translation is more correct. Via googling this translation, D is the Douay-Rheims Bible which is a translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate into English. So I imagine the Catholic must rely on that translation.

I have a SDA friend that is a serious scripture student. He checks the Greek and Hebrew sources of words in his studies and has compared many translations. He told me that over the years doing this he found that the Catholic Bibles translation are more reliable(to the Hebrew and Greek word definition without distorting the meaning of the original text) than any of the protestant translations. I was quite surprise to hear that. So I verified his claim by checking a few of some mis-translations that I was aware of. In those verses checked, the translation in the Catholic Bible was better.

I don't have a Catholic Bible which I will procure in the futur, but I do have the Tenakh that I like to check their translation of difficult text from time to time. Gen 3:18 is one text that is in my to study list. So that's why your post pull my attention. Here is how the Tenakh translated Gen 3:18

The Tenakh Gen 3:18 [b]"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; They shall strike at your head, and you shall strike at their heel."

In the Scripture-for-all software, the literal translation read as follow :

Scripture-for-all Software of Gen 3:18: "and-enmity I-am-setting between-you and-between the-woman and-between your-seed and-between her-seed he he-shall-hurt-you head and-you you-shall-hurt-him heel"


Blessings
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Daryl] #150080
02/26/13 03:56 PM
02/26/13 03:56 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Daryl
I was referring to the language used by the various Bible writers which obviously was first translated by somebody, or a group of people, into their own language, and then subsequently translated into other languages by others.
I assumed that some other languages would have some translations from the original manuscripts, but do you know if there aren't any, that all came from Latin or English?

Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Rick H] #150082
02/26/13 04:18 PM
02/26/13 04:18 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: Daryl
I was referring to the language used by the various Bible writers which obviously was first translated by somebody, or a group of people, into their own language, and then subsequently translated into other languages by others.


The Jews considered every word in Canon to be Holy and would not changed them so the meaning would stay as intended. Now for example, look at the following and tell me what you see....

(Genesis 3:15, K)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

(Genesis 3:15, N)
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

(Genesis 3:15, D)
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."
How do you think it should it be translated?

The transliteration (?):
and-enmity I-am-setting between-you and-between the-woman and-between seed-of-you and-between seed-of-her he he-shall-hurt-you head and-you you-shall-hurt-him heel

Which I would go with the N. But yet, to go with the story of the woman, 'she' would fit. Which 'it' or 'they' could also fit meaning the church. So yes, all three would be good versions. An excellent demonstration to show a good reason to read more than one version.

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