Hello Rosangela, nice to see you on the forum again. How are things in Brazil?

By the way, you have done an excellent job of putting a spin on the quote in question, which tells me that you don't really believe it, either. Certainly not the way it's written. It needs the "correct understanding.

I can agree with this, but not to the extent that it can't happen, if necessary.

Hi JAK, things are fine here. I do believe the quote, but we must distinguish between what is written in the quote and what is not written there.

I think it can happen if necessary, but I believe in this case an unknown person would be allowed to speak.

Like a sleeper agent? In other words, God gives the angel a cover story. The angel isn't really who he says he is. Kind of a lie, isn't it?

I do think that angels are at times present on earth, manifesting themselves as humans, as Johann has pointed out. I think they may be present in such things as protest rallies (if the cause relates to God's purposes) or in townhall type meetings, where the public speaks to an issue, or public hearings. These are all places where "anybody" can speak.

But I don't think they are present in the governments of nations, or that "often in their councils angels have been spokesmen". The men in these councils are known to each other. They hold positions in the government. They are the Minister of Defence, or the Minister of Trade, or some such thing.

So, I am not convinced of the truth of this statement ({Mar 314.3} ); not without some sort of evidence to support it.

Please expand on your answer. The quote seems to be clear enough:

Also, if "often" is relative, please explain in what way.



This seems to me to be saying that it is happening in our governments, today. So if not our governments, today, then who's governments, when?

JAK, as I see it, in that statement she is looking at History as a whole, not speaking specifically about a moment in time (in that case, modern times). She is clearly speaking about moments in history when the people of God was persecuted and the governments and law courts took decisions related to that. "Often" is relative in that it may mean dozens of times, hundreds of times, and so on, depending on the total number of times something happens. How many times in history did governments and law courts took decisions which involved the persecution of the people of God?

In some cases, as I have understood the situation, Christian people may be standing before a judge, an assembly, or in any special circumstances, when they have been quite desperate, not knowing how to present the truth in the best light possible. They may have sighed a prayer. Then, without knowing what was going on, they saw themselves saying or performing something that was beyond their knowledge or experience. To them it was something they could not understand. It looked like they were doing it, and yet it was some other agent in them doing it.

This is how I have understood some of the stories I have read in the past where the conclusion drawn is that it was an unseen angel working through that person.

This is how I understood many of those experiences ever since my childhood, and I have found no reason to change that picture now. Because I have seen divine miracles.

Johann, that is something that I can totally agree with.

But if they manifest themselves as humans, isn't that a lie as you say?