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(NA) Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#149883
02/20/13 04:27 PM
02/20/13 04:27 PM
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OP
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Florida, USA
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Can you find what Spirit of Prophecy says on the subject, as we have to take into account that other planets were also created and God created inhabitants on them. So lets look at the, "sons of God" (or "Nephilim") in question in Genesis 6:1–4, immediately before the story of Noah's ark:
"1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." ."
The nature of the Nephilim is unclear as to exactly what they are.
So for the sake of argument to dig deeper, lets look into the "fallen angels" interpretation to see if it can be discounted or support found for it. You find that the Hebrew for the phrase "the sons of God" (Hebrew, בְּנֵי הָֽאֱלֹהִים;) is used just two times outside of Genesis chapter 6. In both instances (namely, Job 1:6 and Job 2:1) the phrase references angels.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
Lets look in SOP next....
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Rick H]
#149885
02/20/13 05:53 PM
02/20/13 05:53 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Now that some others have weighed in on this, let me share my perspective. First, we will follow Biblical rules for interpretation, including the following points: context, comparing scripture with scripture, and letting the Bible interpret itself. We need more of the context, so let's go back a few verses and start with verse 15 of 1 Peter 3, then continue reading to verse two of the following chapter (the chapter divisions were arbitrary). 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 3:17 For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Chapter 4
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. Now I will chart some notable parallels. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15) | For I [am] the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I [am] holy... (Leviticus 11:44) | Notice how in Peter we are told to "sanctify the Lord God" in our hearts, but in other passages we are typically told that God will sanctify us. Who is being made holy here? Is it really God that we make holy? or ourselves through His power and by His residence in our hearts? | Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. (1 Peter 3:16-17) | Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. (James 5:10)
For what glory [is it], if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer [for it], ye take it patiently, this [is] acceptable with God. (1 Peter 2:20) | Notice here that Peter is focused upon the righteous. This is also the context of his prior chapter. | For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18) | So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. (Hebrews 10:10) | Christ suffered to what purpose? our sanctification. This is a crucial point, and must be understood to properly comprehend the following verses. | By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (1 Peter 3:19) | The spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; (Isaiah 61:1)
They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine. (Isaiah 29:24)
Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3)
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak. (Matthew 26:41)
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Romans 7:24)
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:5) | Here comes the part that many do not follow and are led to misunderstandings. God is trying to sanctify His people. Their spirits are "poor." They have "erred in spirit." Their "spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." This "spirit" "lusteth to envy." Paul reveals a sense of imprisonment in the carnal body, an imprisonment from which he longed to escape. Jesus came to proclaim liberty to the captives of sin, not from this world, not from a physical prison, but from the bondage to sin itself. It was by His suffering and resurrection that He witnessed most strongly to us--to our "spirits in prison." | Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:20) | And God saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:5-7)
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Genesis 6:3) | Peter now gives an example of "disobedient" spirits--the first major apostasy in earth's history. He starts by speaking of their disobedience, then recalls that God was longsuffering toward them and that God "waited" for them in Noah's day. Genesis tells us that God waited 120 years. Surely God was giving them every possible chance to repent and to receive His salvation which was being offered them. | The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21) | John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: (Luke 3:16) | Here Peter likens the passage of Noah and his family through the water to baptism, and points out that we are still saved through the same figure, or symbol, "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." There are several ways to apply Christ's resurrection to this, both symbolically and legally. We would not be able to enter the new life except for Christ's victory and resurrection, and baptism is a representation of death to the old man and resurrection as a new being. | Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. (1 Peter 3:22-4:2) | From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (Matthew 16:21)
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:25-27)
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48) | Jesus suffered, died, and rose again the third day in order that we should also have hope of a resurrection and restoration to Him. We are now also to be witnesses with Him. It is as much our duty to preach to the spirits in prison as it was Christ's privilege to do. Through Noah, Christ preached. He will also preach through us if we are willing to cooperate with His Spirit. |
Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#149886
02/20/13 07:14 PM
02/20/13 07:14 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,249
Florida, USA
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Now that some others have weighed in on this, let me share my perspective. First, we will follow Biblical rules for interpretation, including the following points: context, comparing scripture with scripture, and letting the Bible interpret itself. We need more of the context, so let's go back a few verses and start with verse 15 of 1 Peter 3, then continue reading to verse two of the following chapter (the chapter divisions were arbitrary). 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 3:17 For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Chapter 4
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. Now I will chart some notable parallels. <div style="font-size:1.2em"> <table cellpadding=8 cellspacing=0 border=1 bordercolor="#000088" bgcolor=white><tr><td>But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15)</td><td>For I [am] the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I [am] holy... (Leviticus 11:44)</td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Notice how in Peter we are told to "sanctify the Lord God" in our hearts, but in other passages we are typically told that God will sanctify us. Who is being made holy here? Is it really God that we make holy? or ourselves through His power and by His residence in our hearts?</td></tr><tr><td>Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. (1 Peter 3:16-17)</td><td>Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. (James 5:10)<br /><br />For what glory [is it], if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer [for it], ye take it patiently, this [is] acceptable with God. (1 Peter 2:20)</td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Notice here that Peter is focused upon the righteous. This is also the context of his prior chapter.</td></tr><tr><td>For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18)</td><td>So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)<br /><br />By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. (Hebrews 10:10)</td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Christ suffered to what purpose? our sanctification. This is a crucial point, and must be understood to properly comprehend the following verses.</td></tr><tr><td>By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (1 Peter 3:19)</td><td>The spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; (Isaiah 61:1)<br /><br />They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine. (Isaiah 29:24)<br /><br />Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3)<br /><br />Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak. (Matthew 26:41)<br /><br />O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Romans 7:24)<br /><br />Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:5)</td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Here comes the part that many do not follow and are led to misunderstandings. God is trying to sanctify His people. Their spirits are "poor." They have "erred in spirit." Their "spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." This "spirit" "lusteth to envy." Paul reveals a sense of imprisonment in the carnal body, an imprisonment from which he longed to escape. Jesus came to proclaim liberty to the captives of sin, not from this world, not from a physical prison, but from the bondage to sin itself. It was by His suffering and resurrection that He witnessed most strongly to us--to our "spirits in prison."</td></tr><tr><td>Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:20)</td><td>And God saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:5-7)<br /><br /> And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Genesis 6:3) </td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Peter now gives an example of "disobedient" spirits--the first major apostasy in earth's history. He starts by speaking of their disobedience, then recalls that God was longsuffering toward them and that God "waited" for them in Noah's day. Genesis tells us that God waited 120 years. Surely God was giving them every possible chance to repent and to receive His salvation which was being offered them.</td></tr> <tr><td>The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21)</td><td>John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: (Luke 3:16)</td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Here Peter likens the passage of Noah and his family through the water to baptism, and points out that we are still saved through the same figure, or symbol, "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." There are several ways to apply Christ's resurrection to this, both symbolically and legally. We would not be able to enter the new life except for Christ's victory and resurrection, and baptism is a representation of death to the old man and resurrection as a new being.</td></tr><tr><td>Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. (1 Peter 3:22-4:2)</td><td>From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (Matthew 16:21)<br /><br />Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:25-27)<br /><br />And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)</td></tr><tr><td colspan=2>Jesus suffered, died, and rose again the third day in order that we should also have hope of a resurrection and restoration to Him. We are now also to be witnesses with Him. It is as much our duty to preach to the spirits in prison as it was Christ's privilege to do. Through Noah, Christ preached. He will also preach through us if we are willing to cooperate with His Spirit.</td></tr></table></div> Blessings, Green Cochoa. GC, I want you to go the Hebrew and Greek, and if you could check the Spirit of Prophecy also, as I am stuck at work. But, tell me, how do you see the verse where Peter repeats the same motif later: 2 Peter 2 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; As it says the angels sinned against God, who is now holding them in restraint, in 'hell' (Tartarus), in a place of great darkness until the day of judgment.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Rick H]
#149891
02/20/13 09:31 PM
02/20/13 09:31 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,515
Midland
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Rick, the spirits in prison were the lost ones in Noah's day. But they rejected the "salvation" message.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: kland]
#149900
02/21/13 06:06 AM
02/21/13 06:06 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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GC, I want you to go the Hebrew and Greek, and if you could check the Spirit of Prophecy also, as I am stuck at work. But, tell me, how do you see the verse where Peter repeats the same motif later:
2 Peter 2 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
As it says the angels sinned against God, who is now holding them in restraint, in 'hell' (Tartarus), in a place of great darkness until the day of judgment. Again, let's consider the context. The two verses you quoted require context on both sides to properly understand what Peter is talking about. (They don't even finish the sentence.) 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. Chapter 2
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds;) 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. I won't take time to make a comparison table this time, but notice that at the beginning of the passage I quoted above, Peter is on the subject of prophecy and its source. He then goes on to add that there are, in addition to the true prophets which speak on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, also false prophets and false teachers. He says many will follow these falsehoods, to the point that the truth will "be evil spoken of." The following verses, including the two you quoted, speak of the judgment that is to come upon the instigators and participants in the heresies and spread of falsehoods. "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, ...." Does this text mean that the angels are burning in hell now? What is "hell?" From the context, "hell" is this earth. The angels were cast out of Heaven for their apostasy and were brought down to earth. "...And delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; ...." Again, are these angels in "chains?" What are these "chains of darkness?" I would interpret them to be representative of the bonds of error, ignorance and sin which are symbolized by darkness. "Light," the opposite of "darkness," represents truth and righteousness. By contrast, the darkness is where works of evil are said to be done. "Chains of darkness" would refer to the bondage of sin. "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of ungodly; ...." Again, Peter is using an example. Peter was fascinated with examples. Read through his two short books and you will find them littered with examples. At times he even uses the word "example" himself. In this case, Peter is giving us an example of God's judgment. He's pointing out that God does have a sense of justice, and that those who are wicked will have judgment coming to them. He uses the example of Noah's day to illustrate the kind of justice which those received who rejected God's invitation of mercy. In the verses which follow, Peter provides yet another example, that of Lot in Sodom, and how those cities were destroyed by God as an example to all those who should live ungodly lives afterward. Verse 9 follows with Peter's conclusion, being that "the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." Really, these passages seem simple enough to me. Their meaning is certainly a spiritual one, but not difficult to grasp. It is not as though there is some secret, special message about Jesus preaching to the already-deceased of Noah's day after the fact. The fact is, Jesus already preached to them during Noah's time through both Noah's example and his voice. But they were imprisoned by their own misconceptions and reasonings, and were to proud to listen or to admit the error of their ways. They did not desire to change, and therefore did not. In following their carnal natures, they chose an undesirable destiny. God's judgments fell upon them after 120 years of mercy and message had failed to influence them to change their course. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#149902
02/21/13 10:05 AM
02/21/13 10:05 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,249
Florida, USA
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GC, I want you to go the Hebrew and Greek, and if you could check the Spirit of Prophecy also, as I am stuck at work. But, tell me, how do you see the verse where Peter repeats the same motif later:
2 Peter 2 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
As it says the angels sinned against God, who is now holding them in restraint, in 'hell' (Tartarus), in a place of great darkness until the day of judgment. Again, let's consider the context. The two verses you quoted require context on both sides to properly understand what Peter is talking about. (They don't even finish the sentence.) 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. Chapter 2
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds;) 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. I won't take time to make a comparison table this time, but notice that at the beginning of the passage I quoted above, Peter is on the subject of prophecy and its source. He then goes on to add that there are, in addition to the true prophets which speak on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, also false prophets and false teachers. He says many will follow these falsehoods, to the point that the truth will "be evil spoken of." The following verses, including the two you quoted, speak of the judgment that is to come upon the instigators and participants in the heresies and spread of falsehoods. "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, ...." Does this text mean that the angels are burning in hell now? What is "hell?" From the context, "hell" is this earth. The angels were cast out of Heaven for their apostasy and were brought down to earth. "...And delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; ...." Again, are these angels in "chains?" What are these "chains of darkness?" I would interpret them to be representative of the bonds of error, ignorance and sin which are symbolized by darkness. "Light," the opposite of "darkness," represents truth and righteousness. By contrast, the darkness is where works of evil are said to be done. "Chains of darkness" would refer to the bondage of sin. "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of ungodly; ...." Again, Peter is using an example. Peter was fascinated with examples. Read through his two short books and you will find them littered with examples. At times he even uses the word "example" himself. In this case, Peter is giving us an example of God's judgment. He's pointing out that God does have a sense of justice, and that those who are wicked will have judgment coming to them. He uses the example of Noah's day to illustrate the kind of justice which those received who rejected God's invitation of mercy. In the verses which follow, Peter provides yet another example, that of Lot in Sodom, and how those cities were destroyed by God as an example to all those who should live ungodly lives afterward. Verse 9 follows with Peter's conclusion, being that "the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." Really, these passages seem simple enough to me. Their meaning is certainly a spiritual one, but not difficult to grasp. It is not as though there is some secret, special message about Jesus preaching to the already-deceased of Noah's day after the fact. The fact is, Jesus already preached to them during Noah's time through both Noah's example and his voice. But they were imprisoned by their own misconceptions and reasonings, and were to proud to listen or to admit the error of their ways. They did not desire to change, and therefore did not. In following their carnal natures, they chose an undesirable destiny. God's judgments fell upon them after 120 years of mercy and message had failed to influence them to change their course. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Well, now compare that verse to the one in Jude which repeats almost the same. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Last edited by Rick H; 02/21/13 10:09 AM.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Rick H]
#149903
02/21/13 10:38 AM
02/21/13 10:38 AM
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OP
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Now lets go to the story of the demons who possessed a man that Jesus comes across:
Luke 8 King James Version (KJV) 27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. 29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) 30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. 31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. 32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them. 33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
Note, there was a place they did not want Jesus to "command them to go out into the deep."
Now in Revelation we are told there is a abyss or bottomless pit from the Greek 'abussos' deriving from the Greek element meaning "deep, bottom" in which Satan himself is cast and is not free to go and cannot deceive the nations.
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
So there is a place of restraint which doesnt allow Satan to do what he wants to do and also holds him in place.
I am not saying 'hell' or 'purgatory' or anything like that, but a place of restraint, which scripture shows us.
Last edited by Rick H; 02/21/13 02:10 PM.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#149904
02/21/13 11:02 AM
02/21/13 11:02 AM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
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I quoted above, Peter is on the subject of prophecy and its source. He then goes on to add that there are, in addition to the true prophets which speak on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, also false prophets and false teachers. He says many will follow these falsehoods, to the point that the truth will "be evil spoken of."
The following verses, including the two you quoted, speak of the judgment that is to come upon the instigators and participants in the heresies and spread of falsehoods. I don't have much time, but like to say that the focus of Peter’s letters wasn’t about false prophets, but about disobedience to the Lord as the fallen angels were. Of course the Lord will always send false prophets in our midst and this is how He show our true heart condition whether we will obey the Lord or not. A side note, these fallen angels where false prophets too and persuaded the whole earth of their deception in Noah’s time. I will elaborate on that later. Really, these passages seem simple enough to me. Their meaning is certainly a spiritual one, but not difficult to grasp. It is not as though there is some secret, special message about Jesus preaching to the already-deceased of Noah's day after the fact. The fact is, Jesus already preached to them during Noah's time through both Noah's example and his voice. But they were imprisoned by their own misconceptions and reasonings, and were to proud to listen or to admit the error of their ways. They did not desire to change, and therefore did not. In following their carnal natures, they chose an undesirable destiny. God's judgments fell upon them after 120 years of mercy and message had failed to influence them to change their course. A comment about your above underlined statement. The definition of kerusso is “ to herald” or “ to proclaim”. It is different than preaching. A proclamation can be done in a form of preaching, but we shouldn’t assume that preaching is always done in a proclamation. 1 Peter 3:18 “ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached[ Kerusso, to herald] unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: His resurrection or as worded above “ quickened by the spirit” was a proclamation that went into all the earth especially to those “ spirits in prison” or “ the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell[ tartarus]”. I agree with Rick, these are fallen angels as it is plainly stated. The fallen angels are not dead and are able to hear this proclamation and that is one reason the emphasis is made here whereas all the people who died whether in Noah’s days or not, cannot hear it for they are asleep and not aware. The people who were alive in those days, most was not able to hear or understand this proclamation, however, those in tartarus was in the ability to hear and was very well in the knowing of what Jesus' resurection meant. The proclamation(or His resurrection meant) was that Jesus is Lord over all(including the fallen angels) and that all was subject to Him, and that He had been given a Name above every name(Phil 2:10) is confirmed by Peter’s conclusion in his next verse : 1 Peter 3:22 “ Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Blessings
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Elle]
#149907
02/21/13 02:14 PM
02/21/13 02:14 PM
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OP
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I quoted above, Peter is on the subject of prophecy and its source. He then goes on to add that there are, in addition to the true prophets which speak on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, also false prophets and false teachers. He says many will follow these falsehoods, to the point that the truth will "be evil spoken of."
The following verses, including the two you quoted, speak of the judgment that is to come upon the instigators and participants in the heresies and spread of falsehoods. I don't have much time, but like to say that the focus of Peter’s letters wasn’t about false prophets, but about disobedience to the Lord as the fallen angels were. Of course the Lord will always send false prophets in our midst and this is how He show our true heart condition whether we will obey the Lord or not. A side note, these fallen angels where false prophets too and persuaded the whole earth of their deception in Noah’s time. I will elaborate on that later. Really, these passages seem simple enough to me. Their meaning is certainly a spiritual one, but not difficult to grasp. It is not as though there is some secret, special message about Jesus preaching to the already-deceased of Noah's day after the fact. The fact is, Jesus already preached to them during Noah's time through both Noah's example and his voice. But they were imprisoned by their own misconceptions and reasonings, and were to proud to listen or to admit the error of their ways. They did not desire to change, and therefore did not. In following their carnal natures, they chose an undesirable destiny. God's judgments fell upon them after 120 years of mercy and message had failed to influence them to change their course. A comment about your above underlined statement. The definition of kerusso is “ to herald” or “ to proclaim”. It is different than preaching. A proclamation can be done in a form of preaching, but we shouldn’t assume that preaching is always done in a proclamation. 1 Peter 3:18 “ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached[ Kerusso, to herald] unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: His resurrection or as worded above “ quickened by the spirit” was a proclamation that went into all the earth especially to those “ spirits in prison” or “ the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell[ tartarus]”. I agree with Rick, these are fallen angels as it is plainly stated. The fallen angels are not dead and are able to hear this proclamation and that is one reason the emphasis is made here whereas all the people who died whether in Noah’s days or not, cannot hear it for they are asleep and not aware. The people who were alive in those days, most was not able to hear or understand this proclamation, however, those in tartarus was in the ability to hear and was very well in the knowing of what Jesus' resurection meant. The proclamation(or His resurrection meant) was that Jesus is Lord over all(including the fallen angels) and that all was subject to Him, and that He had been given a Name above every name(Phil 2:10) is confirmed by Peter’s conclusion in his next verse : 1 Peter 3:22 “ Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Very good post Elle, as Adventist, any verses pf 'fallen angels' being held in restraint or 'prison' sounds like the Greek myths of Hades, so its difficult for us and we tend to shy away or try to spiritualize, or evem turn a blind eye to some parts of the Bible which we cant make fit. Thus the dilemna with these verses from Peter....
Last edited by Rick H; 02/21/13 10:41 PM.
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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'?
[Re: Rick H]
#149916
02/21/13 10:54 PM
02/21/13 10:54 PM
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OP
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Now we have more of these verses....
Ephesians 4 King James Version (KJV) 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) These are hard verses for Adventist to get a grasp of and come up with a viable answer.
Last edited by Rick H; 02/21/13 11:27 PM.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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