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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #149085
01/16/13 01:21 AM
01/16/13 01:21 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Johann
Some people spend their lives in the shadow of the valley of death, finding the importance of defining the verbal variations in the expressions describing the process of death. Others find their way into the light of Jesus Christ and His Gospel of eternal life. Do we get the idea that the light described to vividly by the Apostle John in His epistle becomes any brighter by discovering false translations from the Hebrew or Greek terms of the process of death?


ROFL ROFL

Touche, Johann!


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Green Cochoa] #149090
01/16/13 02:58 PM
01/16/13 02:58 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
You have twisted what I said to say something that is no longer true.
That's a false accusation.

You switch from one side to another, from manuscripts to translations to English to your own preference for words. I asked about the KJV. You talked about the Textus Receptus. How am I to know if that's a switch or not you are making?

Quote:
Now, I might choose to make such an admission, but for you to say that I have is incorrect. I addressed the KJV, not the TR, in that post.
Looked like you were talking about the TR to me.



Quote:

Notice how the word is used in other places? Why is it that the only verses where Hebrew 7523 is translated as "kill" are the two statements of the sixth commandment? Verses which say "kill" all use a different Hebrew word, except for those two commandments. All of the verses using the word God chose for the commandment are translated in other places as some form of "murder," "slay," "manslayer," etc., which is hardly the same as "kill."
Now you switched back to disputing English words.

It means, to dash in pieces. Just because the translators used one word more often than another doesn't mean they should only use that word. Again, you are using another version of the "more is better" fallacy.

Why don't you go back to the original Hebrew and give the meaning of the word instead of attempting to distinguish between English words?


As far as you choosing one English word over another to feebly attempt to justify your presumption, it appears Tom's effort in describing God's character has been lost on you. You are doing nothing more than picking a English version, saying it's right and correct because it agrees with your belief system. And that is not a correct method.

Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: kland] #149097
01/16/13 07:53 PM
01/16/13 07:53 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Is there anything wrong with cheating a little bit here and a little bit there as long as you are fighting for a cause you are convinced is right? confused confused confused


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #149746
02/16/13 12:08 PM
02/16/13 12:08 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,243
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
Is there anything wrong with cheating a little bit here and a little bit there as long as you are fighting for a cause you are convinced is right? confused confused confused

Adam thought he could cheat just a bit to save Eve, a cause he certainly felt convince was right, and bit the apple.

Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Rick H] #149772
02/17/13 02:38 AM
02/17/13 02:38 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Adam thought he could cheat just a bit to save Eve, a cause he certainly felt convince was right, and bit the apple.

That is an assumption/opinion that cannot be supported by the text.

Or, if you can, please do so.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: kland] #149832
02/19/13 04:33 AM
02/19/13 04:33 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
You have twisted what I said to say something that is no longer true.
That's a false accusation.

You switch from one side to another, from manuscripts to translations to English to your own preference for words. I asked about the KJV. You talked about the Textus Receptus. How am I to know if that's a switch or not you are making?

Quote:
Now, I might choose to make such an admission, but for you to say that I have is incorrect. I addressed the KJV, not the TR, in that post.
Looked like you were talking about the TR to me.



Quote:

Notice how the word is used in other places? Why is it that the only verses where Hebrew 7523 is translated as "kill" are the two statements of the sixth commandment? Verses which say "kill" all use a different Hebrew word, except for those two commandments. All of the verses using the word God chose for the commandment are translated in other places as some form of "murder," "slay," "manslayer," etc., which is hardly the same as "kill."
Now you switched back to disputing English words.

It means, to dash in pieces. Just because the translators used one word more often than another doesn't mean they should only use that word. Again, you are using another version of the "more is better" fallacy.

Why don't you go back to the original Hebrew and give the meaning of the word instead of attempting to distinguish between English words?


As far as you choosing one English word over another to feebly attempt to justify your presumption, it appears Tom's effort in describing God's character has been lost on you. You are doing nothing more than picking a English version, saying it's right and correct because it agrees with your belief system. And that is not a correct method.


It's been awhile, but perhaps I will yet address this, for the record. I was away for some weeks, and have been too busy following my return to consider this until now.

Let's start with a review of the posts that led us to here, first mine, then yours. I'll emphasize the key points in those posts for clarity.

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: kland
Quote:
One cannot edit the Word of God and introduce no error. A liar eventually must contradict himself, and those who change the Word of God do likewise.

That made me smile.

I'm at a loss to know where to begin....

Was the KJV edited?

In a few places, yes, unfortunately. The sixth commandment is one of those. This is why going back to the original language is frequently important in Bible study. But the modern versions pale in comparison to the relative purity of the KJV.

Basically, there is no perfect version. But some are more perfect than others. In general, any Bible translated from the Textus Receptus line of manuscripts, such as the Waldensian Bibles were, is far superior to those Bibles coming from the Catholic-edited manuscripts such as the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. Fittingly, the TR line represents about 95% of all the extant manuscripts, and to me this seems appropriate in light of God's promise to preserve His Word.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: kland
Quote:
One cannot edit the Word of God and introduce no error. A liar eventually must contradict himself, and those who change the Word of God do likewise.

That made me smile.

I'm at a loss to know where to begin....

Was the KJV edited?

In a few places, yes, unfortunately. The sixth commandment is one of those. This is why going back to the original language is frequently important in Bible study. But the modern versions pale in comparison to the relative purity of the KJV.

Basically, there is no perfect version. But some are more perfect than others. In general, any Bible translated from the Textus Receptus line of manuscripts, such as the Waldensian Bibles were, is far superior to those Bibles coming from the Catholic-edited manuscripts such as the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. Fittingly, the TR line represents about 95% of all the extant manuscripts, and to me this seems appropriate in light of God's promise to preserve His Word.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
But how do you know it's wrong? You can't say any version not from the Textus Receptus is wrong, because you just admitted that in a few places, even it is wrong. So how do you know it is wrong? Do we just take your word that it is wrong?


You asked me about the KJV. I answered about the KJV. You then claimed that I had made an admission about the TR. That twisted what I was saying into something that I did not say. How you can, in light of this, still say that my claim that you have twisted what I said is false is beyond me. Let the posts speak for themselves.

I didn't make the switch. You did.

I will admit that there are errors in the KJV translation. The translation was "edited" in places. That is obvious. I would actually hope that any translation is edited. An unedited manuscript just might have more egregious errors in it, as had the KJV when it was first produced with the wording "Thou shalt commit adultery." smile Perhaps I need to say, for clarity, that this egregious error was NOT in the TR.

I have never said that the TR was edited. I have no proof that it was. I tend not to say things for which I do not have documentable support on matters like this.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150004
02/24/13 10:54 PM
02/24/13 10:54 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Is there a pure unadulterated translation anywhere?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Daryl] #150017
02/25/13 03:45 AM
02/25/13 03:45 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Is there a pure unadulterated translation anywhere?


Do we live in a perfect world?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #150018
02/25/13 03:49 AM
02/25/13 03:49 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Is His kingdom of this world?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter? [Re: Johann] #150019
02/25/13 03:52 AM
02/25/13 03:52 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
How many problems do people face because they reach for something "perfect" in this world?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Page 8 of 23 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 22 23

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