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Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible?
[Re: Elle]
#150307
03/03/13 04:59 AM
03/03/13 04:59 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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And you believe that an axe floated on top of the water? And Gideon jacket was dry while all around was soaking wet and vise versa, and Samson had strength like superman and etc...???
GC you believe what you want and if you want to reject that book...do so. Let others inquire of the Spirit to know what to do and to believe.
Your arguments do not hold and are not in contradictions to the Bible and there are many much details that are in harmony with the Bible including all the dating in an very exact manner. But you don't want to look at that, but instead are looking for something you can call errors so to give you the reason to reject the whole book. People do that very successfully with the Bible too.
Elle, Why did the axe head float? Was it not a miracle of God by a prophet who had strong faith and for whom God had worked multiple times in the past already? But what does Jasher say about these men of war leaping over city walls? It attributes their feats to their "wrath-excited might." Really? Anger? Do you believe that God teaches in the Bible that people should kill others in anger? The Bible teaches that those who kill in anger are murderers. This would be a breaking of the Ten Commandments. Yet "Jasher" glorifies such violent acts. He that hath an ear, let him hear. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#150309
03/03/13 08:07 AM
03/03/13 08:07 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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...and there are many much details that are in harmony with the Bible including all the dating in an very exact manner. Since you brought this up, let's look at a few details that I chose not to include before because I thought people would consider them too nit-picking. But dates have always been important to me, and if they matter to you, then let's go ahead and look at some of these "nit-picking" details. Fair enough? Biblical Standard Compared to Book of Jasher: Trivia or Serious? Part 2 |
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The Holy Bible (KJV) | The Book of Jasher | Comments |
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And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: (Genesis 5:18) | And Mahlallel the son of Cainan lived sixty-five years and he begat Jared; and Jared lived sixty-two years and he begat Enoch. (Jasher 2:37) | Here we see a full 100 years of discrepancy. So much for "all" the dating being in harmony with the Bible. |
Years Tally from Bible | Years from Creation |
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And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: ... And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. | 130 | 0-930 | And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: ... And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died. | 105 | 130-1042 | And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan: ... And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died. | 90 | 235-1140 | And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel: ... And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died. | 70 | 325-1235 | And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared: ... And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died. | 65 | 395-1290 | And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: ... And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. | 162 | 460-1422 | And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: ... And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years... | 65 | 622-987 | And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech: ... And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. | 187 | 687-1656 | And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, ... And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. | 182 | 874-1651 | And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. ... And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died. | 500 | 1056-2006 | Total accumulated years to Lamech's birth: | 874 |
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Year of Lamech's life in which Adam died: | 56 |
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| And it was in the fifty-sixth year of the life of Lamech when Adam died; nine hundred and thirty years old was he at his death, and his two sons, with Enoch and Methuselah his son, buried him with great pomp, as at the burial of kings, in the cave which God had told him. (Jasher 3:14)
In those days when Lamech the son of Methuselah was one hundred and sixty years old, Seth the son of Adam died. (Jasher 4:9)
And Jared the son of Mahlallel died in those days, in the three hundred and thirty-sixth year of the life of Noah; and all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years, and he died. (Jasher 5:4)
And Lamech the father of Noah, died in those days; yet verily he did not go with all his heart in the ways of his father, and he died in the hundred and ninety-fifth year of the life of Noah. (Jasher 5:19) | In the case of Lamech vs Adam, Jasher agrees now with the Bible. So Jasher has just contradicted itself.
But in the case of Lamech vs. Seth, Jasher is 8 years off from the Bible! (Can we ever know if it will be right?)
In the case of Jared vs. Noah, "Jasher" is 30 years off from the Biblical record.
In the case of Noah vs. Lamech, Jasher is off by 595 years! I think someone just wasn't so meticulous at editing their work as they should have been. | And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech: (Genesis 5:25) | And these are the generations of Enoch, Methuselah, Elisha, and Elimelech, three sons; and their sisters were Melca and Nahmah, and Methuselah lived eighty-seven years and he begat Lamech. (Jasher 3:13) | Once again, the book of "Jasher" is a full century off from the Bible. | And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. (Genesis 5:31) | And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy years, and he died. (Jasher 5:20) | "Jasher" is off by seven years here. | And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. (Genesis 5:27) | And it was at that time Methuselah the son of Enoch died, nine hundred and sixty years old was he, at his death. (Jasher 5:36) | "Jasher" is off by nine years here. | And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. (Genesis 8:14-16) | At that time, on the twenty-seventh day of the second month, the earth was dry, but Noah and his sons, and those that were with him, did not go out from the ark until the Lord told them.
And the day came that the Lord told them to go out, and they all went out from the ark.(Jasher 6:39-40) | "Jasher" and the Bible have Noah coming out of the ark at different times. "Jasher" says he did not come out the day the earth was dry, but the Bible says he did come out that day. | And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. (Genesis 11:26) | And Peleg his brother begat Yen, and Yen begat Serug, and Serug begat Nahor and Nahor begat Terah, and Terah was thirty-eight years old, and he begat Haran and Nahor. (Jasher 7:22) | "Jasher" is 32 years off from the Bible record here. | (See last part of Gen. 11, and start of Gen. 12 for details.) | Terah was seventy years old when he begat him, and Terah called the name of his son that was born to him Abram, because the king had raised him in those days, and dignified him above all his princes that were with him. (Jasher 7:51) | I would need to make another fancy table of the facts to show this one, and I'm running short on time or patience at this point to do it, but trust me on this, Abram was born to Terah when Terah was 130 years old, NOT 70 as this "Jasher" puts it--if the Bible is to be believed. | And a few non-date discrepancies that seem rather egregious...for the record. | And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark. (Genesis 7:21-23) | And the rain was still descending upon the earth, and it descended forty days and forty nights, and the waters prevailed greatly upon the earth; and all flesh that was upon the earth or in the waters died, whether men, animals, beasts, creeping things or birds of the air, and there only remained Noah and those that were with him in the ark. | Amazingly, according to "Jasher," ALL life outside the ark perished, even those creatures that lived in the waters. Somehow, "Jasher" requires some major evolutionary processes after the flood, or else all sea and fresh-water life, including all of the species of whales, dolphins, manatees, sharks, giant squid, rays, and all fish must have been on the ark! Wow. | (See Genesis chapters 43-50 for full Biblical picture.) | And when Judah saw the dealings of Joseph with them, Judah approached him and broke open the door, and came with his brethren before Joseph.
And Judah said unto Joseph, Let it not seem grievous in the sight of my lord, may thy servant I pray thee speak a word before thee? and Joseph said unto him, Speak.
And Judah spoke before Joseph, and his brethren were there standing before them; and Judah said unto Joseph, Surely when we first came to our lord to buy food, thou didst consider us as spies of the land, and we brought Benjamin before thee, and thou still makest sport of us this day.
Now therefore let the king hear my words, and send I pray thee our brother that he may go along with us to our father, lest thy soul perish this day with all the souls of the inhabitants of Egypt.
Dost thou not know what two of my brethren, Simeon and Levi, did unto the city of Shechem, and unto seven cities of the Amorites, on account of our sister Dinah, and also what they would do for the sake of their brother Benjamin?
And I with my strength, who am greater and mightier than both of them, come this day upon thee and thy land if thou art unwilling to send our brother.
Hast thou not heard what our God who made choice of us did unto Pharaoh on account of Sarah our mother, whom he took away from our father, that he smote him and his household with heavy plagues, that even unto this day the Egyptians relate this wonder to each other? so will our God do unto thee on account of Benjamin whom thou hast this day taken from his father, and on account of the evils which thou this day heapest over us in thy land; for our God will remember his covenant with our father Abraham and bring evil upon thee, because thou hast grieved the soul of our father this day.
Now therefore hear my words that I have this day spoken unto thee, and send our brother that he may go away lest thou and the people of thy land die by the sword, for you cannot all prevail over me.
And Joseph answered Judah, saying, Why hast thou opened wide thy mouth and why dost thou boast over us, saying, Strength is with thee? as Pharaoh liveth, if I command all my valiant men to fight with you, surely thou and these thy brethren would sink in the mire.
And Judah said unto Joseph, Surely it becometh thee and thy people to fear me; as the Lord liveth if I once draw my sword I shall not sheathe it again until I shall this day have slain all Egypt, and I will commence with thee and finish with Pharaoh thy master.
And Joseph answered and said unto him, Surely strength belongeth not alone to thee; I am stronger and mightier than thou, surely if thou drawest thy sword I will put it to thy neck and the necks of all thy brethren.
And Judah said unto him, Surely if I this day open my mouth against thee I would swallow thee up that thou be destroyed from off the earth and perish this day from thy kingdom. And Joseph said, Surely if thou openest thy mouth I have power and might to close thy mouth with a stone until thou shalt not be able to utter a word; see how many stones are before us, truly I can take a stone, and force it into thy mouth and break thy jaws.
And Judah said, God is witness between us, that we have not hitherto desired to battle with thee, only give us our brother and we will go from thee; and Joseph answered and said, As Pharaoh liveth, if all the kings of Canaan came together with you, you should not take him from my hand.
Now therefore go your way to your father, and your brother shall be unto me for a slave, for he has robbed the king's house. And Judah said, What is it to thee or to the character of the king, surely the king sendeth forth from his house, throughout the land, silver and gold either in gifts or expenses, and thou still talkest about thy cup which thou didst place in our brother's bag and sayest that he has stolen it from thee? (Jasher 54-1-14) | This is a serious deviation from the humility which the Bible portrays the sons of Jacob having at this time. The two accounts cannot be made to agree. Someone has here inserted a product of his or her own wild imagination, and apparently this author enjoys focusing on violence. This is another one of those "Superman! To the rescue!"-type of novelish writings that we find in the so-called "Jasher" book.
According to the Bible, neither Joseph nor Judah would have spoken this way. Joseph loved his brothers, and did not at all wish them harm. In the Bible, Joseph represents Christ as a savior of His brethren (though we are unworthy to call Jesus our Brother). Jesus would never have uttered such violent things as "Jasher" depicts in the above account. Joseph affirms, in the Bible, up to the very end of his life how much he loves his brethren. When the brothers feared he would exact vengeance upon them, the Bible record shows us that it pained Joseph to hear of it. He hurt to think that his brothers would still be afraid. He loved them and had long-since forgiven them of their crime against him. |
My apologies for some of the crudeness of the table above, but to me it still seems more organized than plain text would be. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#150337
03/03/13 08:26 PM
03/03/13 08:26 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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...and there are many much details that are in harmony with the Bible including all the dating in an very exact manner. Since you brought this up, let's look at a few details that I chose not to include before because I thought people would consider them too nit-picking. But dates have always been important to me, and if they matter to you, then let's go ahead and look at some of these "nit-picking" details. Fair enough? Biblical Standard Compared to Book of Jasher: Trivia or Serious? Part 2 |
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The Holy Bible (KJV) | The Book of Jasher | Comments |
---|
And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: (Genesis 5:18) | And Mahlallel the son of Cainan lived sixty-five years and he begat Jared; and Jared lived sixty-two years and he begat Enoch. (Jasher 2:37) | Here we see a full 100 years of discrepancy. So much for "all" the dating being in harmony with the Bible. |
Years Tally from Bible | Years from Creation |
---|
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: ... And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. | 130 | 0-930 | And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: ... And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died. | 105 | 130-1042 | And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan: ... And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died. | 90 | 235-1140 | And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel: ... And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died. | 70 | 325-1235 | And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared: ... And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died. | 65 | 395-1290 | And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: ... And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. | 162 | 460-1422 | And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: ... And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years... | 65 | 622-987 | And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech: ... And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. | 187 | 687-1656 | And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, ... And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. | 182 | 874-1651 | And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. ... And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died. | 500 | 1056-2006 | Total accumulated years to Lamech's birth: | 874 |
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Year of Lamech's life in which Adam died: | 56 |
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| And it was in the fifty-sixth year of the life of Lamech when Adam died; nine hundred and thirty years old was he at his death, and his two sons, with Enoch and Methuselah his son, buried him with great pomp, as at the burial of kings, in the cave which God had told him. (Jasher 3:14)
In those days when Lamech the son of Methuselah was one hundred and sixty years old, Seth the son of Adam died. (Jasher 4:9)
And Jared the son of Mahlallel died in those days, in the three hundred and thirty-sixth year of the life of Noah; and all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years, and he died. (Jasher 5:4)
And Lamech the father of Noah, died in those days; yet verily he did not go with all his heart in the ways of his father, and he died in the hundred and ninety-fifth year of the life of Noah. (Jasher 5:19) | In the case of Lamech vs Adam, Jasher agrees now with the Bible. So Jasher has just contradicted itself.
But in the case of Lamech vs. Seth, Jasher is 8 years off from the Bible! (Can we ever know if it will be right?)
In the case of Jared vs. Noah, "Jasher" is 30 years off from the Biblical record.
In the case of Noah vs. Lamech, Jasher is off by 595 years! I think someone just wasn't so meticulous at editing their work as they should have been. | And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech: (Genesis 5:25) | And these are the generations of Enoch, Methuselah, Elisha, and Elimelech, three sons; and their sisters were Melca and Nahmah, and Methuselah lived eighty-seven years and he begat Lamech. (Jasher 3:13) | Once again, the book of "Jasher" is a full century off from the Bible. | And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. (Genesis 5:31) | And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy years, and he died. (Jasher 5:20) | "Jasher" is off by seven years here. | And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. (Genesis 5:27) | And it was at that time Methuselah the son of Enoch died, nine hundred and sixty years old was he, at his death. (Jasher 5:36) | "Jasher" is off by nine years here. | And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. (Genesis 8:14-16) | At that time, on the twenty-seventh day of the second month, the earth was dry, but Noah and his sons, and those that were with him, did not go out from the ark until the Lord told them.
And the day came that the Lord told them to go out, and they all went out from the ark.(Jasher 6:39-40) | "Jasher" and the Bible have Noah coming out of the ark at different times. "Jasher" says he did not come out the day the earth was dry, but the Bible says he did come out that day. | And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. (Genesis 11:26) | And Peleg his brother begat Yen, and Yen begat Serug, and Serug begat Nahor and Nahor begat Terah, and Terah was thirty-eight years old, and he begat Haran and Nahor. (Jasher 7:22) | "Jasher" is 32 years off from the Bible record here. | (See last part of Gen. 11, and start of Gen. 12 for details.) | Terah was seventy years old when he begat him, and Terah called the name of his son that was born to him Abram, because the king had raised him in those days, and dignified him above all his princes that were with him. (Jasher 7:51) | I would need to make another fancy table of the facts to show this one, and I'm running short on time or patience at this point to do it, but trust me on this, Abram was born to Terah when Terah was 130 years old, NOT 70 as this "Jasher" puts it--if the Bible is to be believed. | And a few non-date discrepancies that seem rather egregious...for the record. | And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark. (Genesis 7:21-23) | And the rain was still descending upon the earth, and it descended forty days and forty nights, and the waters prevailed greatly upon the earth; and all flesh that was upon the earth or in the waters died, whether men, animals, beasts, creeping things or birds of the air, and there only remained Noah and those that were with him in the ark. | Amazingly, according to "Jasher," ALL life outside the ark perished, even those creatures that lived in the waters. Somehow, "Jasher" requires some major evolutionary processes after the flood, or else all sea and fresh-water life, including all of the species of whales, dolphins, manatees, sharks, giant squid, rays, and all fish must have been on the ark! Wow. | (See Genesis chapters 43-50 for full Biblical picture.) | And when Judah saw the dealings of Joseph with them, Judah approached him and broke open the door, and came with his brethren before Joseph.
And Judah said unto Joseph, Let it not seem grievous in the sight of my lord, may thy servant I pray thee speak a word before thee? and Joseph said unto him, Speak.
And Judah spoke before Joseph, and his brethren were there standing before them; and Judah said unto Joseph, Surely when we first came to our lord to buy food, thou didst consider us as spies of the land, and we brought Benjamin before thee, and thou still makest sport of us this day.
Now therefore let the king hear my words, and send I pray thee our brother that he may go along with us to our father, lest thy soul perish this day with all the souls of the inhabitants of Egypt.
Dost thou not know what two of my brethren, Simeon and Levi, did unto the city of Shechem, and unto seven cities of the Amorites, on account of our sister Dinah, and also what they would do for the sake of their brother Benjamin?
And I with my strength, who am greater and mightier than both of them, come this day upon thee and thy land if thou art unwilling to send our brother.
Hast thou not heard what our God who made choice of us did unto Pharaoh on account of Sarah our mother, whom he took away from our father, that he smote him and his household with heavy plagues, that even unto this day the Egyptians relate this wonder to each other? so will our God do unto thee on account of Benjamin whom thou hast this day taken from his father, and on account of the evils which thou this day heapest over us in thy land; for our God will remember his covenant with our father Abraham and bring evil upon thee, because thou hast grieved the soul of our father this day.
Now therefore hear my words that I have this day spoken unto thee, and send our brother that he may go away lest thou and the people of thy land die by the sword, for you cannot all prevail over me.
And Joseph answered Judah, saying, Why hast thou opened wide thy mouth and why dost thou boast over us, saying, Strength is with thee? as Pharaoh liveth, if I command all my valiant men to fight with you, surely thou and these thy brethren would sink in the mire.
And Judah said unto Joseph, Surely it becometh thee and thy people to fear me; as the Lord liveth if I once draw my sword I shall not sheathe it again until I shall this day have slain all Egypt, and I will commence with thee and finish with Pharaoh thy master.
And Joseph answered and said unto him, Surely strength belongeth not alone to thee; I am stronger and mightier than thou, surely if thou drawest thy sword I will put it to thy neck and the necks of all thy brethren.
And Judah said unto him, Surely if I this day open my mouth against thee I would swallow thee up that thou be destroyed from off the earth and perish this day from thy kingdom. And Joseph said, Surely if thou openest thy mouth I have power and might to close thy mouth with a stone until thou shalt not be able to utter a word; see how many stones are before us, truly I can take a stone, and force it into thy mouth and break thy jaws.
And Judah said, God is witness between us, that we have not hitherto desired to battle with thee, only give us our brother and we will go from thee; and Joseph answered and said, As Pharaoh liveth, if all the kings of Canaan came together with you, you should not take him from my hand.
Now therefore go your way to your father, and your brother shall be unto me for a slave, for he has robbed the king's house. And Judah said, What is it to thee or to the character of the king, surely the king sendeth forth from his house, throughout the land, silver and gold either in gifts or expenses, and thou still talkest about thy cup which thou didst place in our brother's bag and sayest that he has stolen it from thee? (Jasher 54-1-14) | This is a serious deviation from the humility which the Bible portrays the sons of Jacob having at this time. The two accounts cannot be made to agree. Someone has here inserted a product of his or her own wild imagination, and apparently this author enjoys focusing on violence. This is another one of those "Superman! To the rescue!"-type of novelish writings that we find in the so-called "Jasher" book.
According to the Bible, neither Joseph nor Judah would have spoken this way. Joseph loved his brothers, and did not at all wish them harm. In the Bible, Joseph represents Christ as a savior of His brethren (though we are unworthy to call Jesus our Brother). Jesus would never have uttered such violent things as "Jasher" depicts in the above account. Joseph affirms, in the Bible, up to the very end of his life how much he loves his brethren. When the brothers feared he would exact vengeance upon them, the Bible record shows us that it pained Joseph to hear of it. He hurt to think that his brothers would still be afraid. He loved them and had long-since forgiven them of their crime against him. |
My apologies for some of the crudeness of the table above, but to me it still seems more organized than plain text would be. I really appreciate these dates contradictions. I need to first compare the texts in both your version and the one I got in case the body of one of our version differ. Then I'll check my sources comments in case I have misquoted them as I read lots of stuff and maybe they never said it was accurate on all the dates. Anyway, if they did say that all the dates were accurate as I seem to recall, then I’ll present your data. Personally, I never have the need to refer to the book of Jasher as I have enough to study with the Bible. However, if this is the best copy there is around and who knows what history it had to get here in this format; like any historical resources, we need to use discernment and ask for guidance if the Spirit leads us to refer to it. So this may takes a few weeks before I can get back about this as I’ll be quite busy this month.
Blessings
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Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible?
[Re: Elle]
#150599
03/10/13 04:09 PM
03/10/13 04:09 PM
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With all these contradictions with the Bible, I can see why it isn't a part of the Bible.
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Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#152515
05/18/13 02:56 PM
05/18/13 02:56 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Well, I've been too busy to do any study of this. I did check Stepen Jones & Myron quotes and they never have said that all of the dates of Jasher were correct. I am the one who have made that assumption. They both have said that it is a reliable source -- as just like I've stated above -- to be used as a historical references and not like an inspired book like we do with the Bible. Myron did share with me his personal notes and study of the Book of Jasher against the Bible. In his document was provided a long chronology table and list of dates that I didn't supply in the quote below. Basically, he has found that there were typos in the version of the book of Jasher we have today, but this does not give ground to reject the whole document just like there are some typos in the Bible due to copying by hand through the ages. This chronology is only an approximation. The information comes from the books of Genesis (Greek: beginning) and Jasher (Hebrew: correct record). Information from Exodus, Numbers and Joshua has not yet been compared with Jasher.
In most cases, the numbers are consistent between Genesis and Jasher. There is a big advantage that Jasher has over Genesis in determining the accuracy of the chronology. Genesis tends to give only a single comparison for fixing the date of various events. Jasher usually compares each event to at least two other events, and sometimes more, making it much easier to check the accuracy of dating events. If a scribal error has occurred, it will usually affect only one of the events. Yet Genesis has a big advantage in the care with which Moses recorded his chronology and the scribes and translators have done their work. The chronology in the genealogies of Genesis in the current English Bibles appears to be remarkably accurate when compared to other sources. The only apparent error was in Shem’s age at his death. There is nothing in Genesis that makes it possible to question this. However, Jasher states that Shem died while Jacob was living and studying with him and he was 600 years old at his death. If he had died at 500 years of age as stated in Genesis, he would have died 60 years before Jacob’s birth.
Most of the errors discovered were in Jasher. This is easily understood since fewer translators have worked on Jasher, and have used fewer early manuscripts in this work. The errors were usually easy to detect and correct due to the multiple time comparisons made in Jasher regarding various events.
The first of these discrepancies was Jared’s age when his son, Enoch, was born. Genesis states he was 162; Jasher says he was 62. Once one charts the entire chronology given in Jasher and does the necessary comparisons and calculations for each event, it is clear that there is a copyist’s or translator’s error in Jasher and Jared was, in fact, 162 years old when Enoch was born. There is a similar discrepancy with Methuselah’s age when Lamech was born. Once again it is easy to determine that the 187 years old recorded in Genesis is correct and th 87 years old reported in Jasher is a copyist’s error. Lamech’s age at his death is listed in Jasher as being 770, while Genesis reports it as 777. In addition there was an error in Jasher in reporting Noah’s age when Lamech died. Once the previous errors were corrected and the year of Lamech’s birth was correctly determined, it was easy to determine that all these errors and others comparing Noah’s age at the occurrence of other events were all copyist’s or translator’s errors dealing with a single digit of the number in our current numbering system. This will generally be a single character omitted or miscopied in the Hebrew.
After Noah, the genealogy of the patriarchs is not as easily verified in Jasher since we are not given the age of most of the fathers at their son’s birth. In many cases we are only told their age at their death, and the age of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob at the time of the ancestor’s death. However, once the calculations are done, we have a list that closely matches the chronology in the genealogy given in Genesis. The only discrepancies involve Serug and his son, Nahor. Jasher lists Serug’s death as occurring in Isaac’s first year and says he was 239 years old. Genesis lists his age at his death as 230. His age at Nahor’s birth is not listed in Jasher, and neither is Nahor’s age at his own death. Thus, from the account in Jasher, it is impossible to set the year of Nahor’s birth and inadequate information is given to determine the year Serug was born or his age at his death. We simply assume the account given in Genesis is correct.
Most of the remaining chronology comes exclusively from Jasher. Information in Genesis only makes it possible to get accurate dates up to Jacob’s birth and Abraham and Isaac’s deaths. Also, Jacob was 130 years old when he was presented to Pharaoh. Inadequate information is given in Genesis to date other events, and as previously stated, the chronology has not been compared with the other books dealing with the same time periods. Nor has there been any effort to verify the historical accuracy of the information dealing with nations other than Israel.
There are other inconsistencies as well. The most difficult of these occur late in the Egyptian sojourn. It was not easy determining the dates of some of these events, but the fact that Jasher generally follows a chronological order, rather than skipping back and forth through time, aids in setting correct dates when discrepancies occur. As with any history dealing with separate events occurring at roughly the same time frame in different geographical settings, an exact chronological listing of events is not always possible.
All dates up until about 2340 are relatively certain. After that time there were numerous discrepancies. The largest of these was under 20 years and most were in the three to six year range. By comparing the timing of various events which are known in relation to each other, it is possible to determine the timing of all these events with reasonable accuracy, even when errors in translating or transcribing the numbers has taken place. It can be assumed that this chronology is accurate to within five years on all the events listed, and that most will be within a year of the actual date of occurrence.
It is interesting to note that of all of Jacob’s sons, only Benjamin’s birth is not accurately recorded in Jasher (none are accurately dated in Genesis). The year of Benjamin’s conception is recorded, but his birth year is not. Judging from the dates given for his marriages, it can be assumed that he was born later in the same year. His death is not recorded at all, the only one of Jacob’s sons whose death is not recorded. Thus we do not have dates for his birth or death, or his age at his death.
In Israel, two calendars are used: the civil and sacrificial calendars. On these two calendars the days and the months are the same. The only difference between the two is the month that is designated the first month of the year, which, of course, effects the entire numerical sequence. According to the sacrificial calendar the year starts with the new moon before Passover in the spring. The civil calendar starts the year in the autumn with the Feast of Trumpets. The exodus is clearly dated on the sacrificial calendar in Jasher and Exodus, as is the Battle of Jericho, so it has been assumed that all dates related to these periods are given on the sacrificial calendar.
In Genesis, Moses gives the dates for the start and finish of the flood. There is archeological and Historical evidence that the flood occurred in the autumn, likely in what is now November. Based on that information and the fact that it matches the dates given in Genesis to the civil calendar, it has been, assumed for our purposes here, that the civil calendar was used to give the dates in Genesis. Furthermore, Exodus 12:2 states, “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year.” The month of Abib/Nisan apparently was not considered the first month before that time, even for sacrificial purposes. If this is the case, the month names given after each entry will be correct.
An additional indication that this assumption is correct is the apparent prophetic timing for the grounding of the ark on Mt. Ararat. This day is the third day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. During this feast, on the day after the Sabbath, the Feast of First Fruits is celebrated. The first and last days of this feast are appointed as Sabbaths and a weekly Sabbath will fall at some time during this week. First Fruits is the day after the Sabbath during Unleavened Bread. The weekly Sabbath is not specified as the day before First Fruits. First Fruits will fall on either the second or third day of Unleavened Bread, depending on where the weekly Sabbath falls during this week. If the weekly Sabbath falls on the second day of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits would be on the third day of Unleavened Bread – the day the ark grounded. Since God tends to fulfill prophetic events on the exact date of the celebrations that commemorate them, and many prophecies have multiple fulfillments, it would not be too surprising that God would re-establish man’s presence on solid earth on the day of First Fruits.
In the flood account, some dates are given in Genesis and others can be calculated from other information given regarding the timing of that event. Dates given in bold print are given in the account in Genesis. The other dates given here are calculated. Due to idiosyncrasies in the Hebrew calendar and my lack of complete knowledge of those idiosyncrasies, these calculated dates cannot be considered completely accurate, but would be very close. There are three months that can have either 29 or 30 days. Heshvan is one of those months. Thus it is possible that the rain ended on Chislev 28. Approximately every third year a thirteenth month is added between Adar and Nisan (the sixth and seventh months on the civil calendar and the twelfth and and first months on the sacrificial calendar.) Thus it is possible the events listed in Tammuz and Ab may actually have occurred in Sivan and Tammuz, although there are indications that this was actually a twelve-month year.
Blessings
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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