That is interesting since I said almost the exact same thing just before you posted this and it has not been posted yet.

Tell me who was the father of Adam? Tell me who was the father of the angels? How these where created versus Jesus in the womb of Mary, I agree is different but the bottom line rest that the Almighty was their creator directly, and their Father and they were born with the full measure of the Spirit of the Lord in contrary to any man born of man who have a man as their father and born with hardly any measure of the Spirit.

???? Job 1; 2; 38, Genesis 6, Jude and Peter relating to the incident.

Are you saying the fallen angels were created evil and never were holy???? Job relates clearly that the "sons of God" were angels, and it is correctly taught in our church that the fallen angels were once holy angels. They had a holy condition before they fell, and that's why they are identified as "sons of God" to specify who are the ones that fell.

No where in the Bible says that it was the sons of Seth that fell. I have the Bible, the sonship doctrine, and sound logic to back up that Gen 6:2 where angels, but where is your Biblical support for your interpretation???

Elle,

According to the Bible, sonship is not determined by one's genetics nor heritage. It is not determined by creatorship. We all know that the devil cannot create even one of us. The devil has no power to create people, or life at all. So it would therefore be impossible, per your theology, to ever find a "son of the devil."

But look at what Jesus taught.



According to you, Elle, Jesus just lied. Those people cannot have had Satan as their father. Satan did not create them. Jesus created them.

But the Bible assigns sonship, not by creatorship, but by character. In other words, sonship can be changed. As I said in my earlier post, we can choose our father. We can select our own spiritual paternity.

Whom do we serve?

If the fallen angels had never fallen they would still be the sons of God. But having become sinners, they are no longer God's children. That is why the Bible never once refers to them as the sons of God.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

There is some truth in your statement, but heritage(genetic) was also a main part of the transfer of inheritance and birthright as we see with the patriarch. The birthright and inheritance had to go to the firstborn according to the law in Deut 21:15-17. That law was to protect the first born in case the mother was later unloved, and the man came to loved his second wife more. Leah was the unloved wife and according to the law the inheritance had to go to Reuben unless there were legal cause for being unworthy of it. We see this in the life of Jesus also, he had to prove worthy of the inheritance despite He was the firstborn son of the Almighty.

So Reuben lost his inheritance because he defiled his father’s bed. Despite Simeon and Levi shed blood in the city of Hamor the Hivite, Jacob did give them a part of the inheritance, but the main part of the inheritance was split between Judah (the scepter) and Joseph(the fruitful bough). So we see here the Lord does regard genetics to pass His inheritance to. And so, we see the same picture with the nation of Israel who was the first-son of God, therefore the inheritance belong to them by the Law. It does get a little complicated because the Lord did give a bill of devorsement to Israel and prophesy does talk about the restoration of Israel. Without getting into that, we see Judah proved themselves unworthy and therefore the inheritance went there after to the gentiles.

But basically we see here that the Lord also follows His own laws of physical sonship.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You maybe confusing with someone else’s comment. I never said it was the devil who married any of the daughters of man.


There’s a spiritual and a physical dimension of death, birth, sonship, circumcision, the Sabbath and all other aspects of the law. The spirit(whether of the Lord or the adversary) that possess us is our spiritual father, but we also have a physical father. All human beings needs to go through adoption to gain sonships as written in the scriptures.

Scriptures says that we get to sonship through discipline. It is not something we choose, it is the Father who select who He shall show mercy(Rom 9-11) to first and puts them through trials and severe trials too. Heb 12: 4” In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a]
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.”

Many clam to be children of God but really never faced any serious form of discipline. Whatever little discipline they face they claim it comes from Satan and not from the Father. Those who do not face the discipline in this life cannot become sons of God, they’re father is someone else.
We see that the Father discipline Jacob severely and scripture relates to it by saying that “He loved Jacob, but hated Essau”. This is a type of litteracy exageration as we know the Lord did not hate Essau, but the meaning here is that the Lord disciplined Jacob for He had in His plan to give the birthright to him before they were even born despite he was not the first-born. The Lord set it all up by birthing Jacob a few second after Essau. Did the Lord broke His own law by giving the birthright to the second son? or did he give it after all? He didn’t and the fact is that Jacob stole or trick Essau to sell him the birthright. The birthright was not Essau to sell. And so this illegal struggle for the birthright is still not resolve ‘till today. The Lord did not let that by. Jacob did not obtain the birthright legally and there is a restitution to be made toward Essau who was the rightful heir. This is an interesting part of history and seeing that nothing is tuck under the carpet even after Jacob has repented. This was illegal and the Lord had planned it that way to rectify this later on. Under divine inspiration Jacob foresaw this needed rectification and that is why the birthright was splitted amongs the sons of Leah, and the best given to Joseph.

If we are to study history and prophesies about Essau and Judah, it will show that these two nation merged just before the time of Jesus. Then in 1948, the birthright was regiven to Essau-Judah when they regain the land of Jerusalem, so he can show himself worthy of the inheritance. As we can see today, that Essau-Judah is blood thirsty and it is only a question of time for the prophecies is to be fulfilled about them. Here’s the link to read more about The Struggle of the Birthright.

To conclude, the Lord works through His laws. We see that genetic sonship is part of his laws and he still works through these nations today, however, it is also true what it boils down to whom the Lords disciplines are those He is training to become the true sons who is learning to obey His voice through the laws of tribulations. And those He disciplines not, are not His sons in this age.


That is not true and you cannot support that with scriptures. Scriptures relates to these fallen angels as being disciplined and reserve for judgment. Since they are severely disciplined as Heb 12 denotes, it is some type of proof they are still sons. The Bible does not give us any information that they have lost their sonship status. We do not know what the Lord has in mind and what His judgment will be. So we shouldn’t speculate for the Bible does not go into that dimension.

Have you tried looking at oil slicks in a teacup?
Some have come up with the strangest things by doing that.

Jesus was "counted among the transgressors" which means He is on the list of men born of a woman, and it means He took the sins of those He would lead to forgiveness upon His sinless head. He was fully God and fully man. So He was both a "son of God" by birth from the bosom of the Father and by birth through a human woman, having not sinned.

This is the point so many over look. He was the second Adam because He left everything to become one of us and live the perfect life. This gave Him the right to take our sins upon Himself. If He had sinned even in thought everything He came to do would mean nothing.

God re-established a connection to this fallen race through the death of the body of the perfect man, the one sent by the Father as a sacrifice.

Jesus ministered to the souls in prison when came to this earth to give the dead life, which can only be establishes while we are alive to be tested. So the living dead are brought back to life and then we receive the translation into the heavenly body at the resurrection.

GC this was the perfect quote and I mean it in the way you meant it.

"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

The devil is the Father of all those born into sin, all of the descendants of Adam are born slaves to sin, and Jesus came to set us free from this prison of death.

So this quote proves that Satan, though not the creator, is the father of the wicked if they want to believe it or not. They are the seed of the devil, which goes to the beginning in Eden when the curse was pronounced. When God said "I will put enmity between your seed and her seed" this is the two classes that are spoken of as the 'Son's of God' and the 'son's of men'.

Would you say that satan(the adversary) is the spiritual father or the physical father or both?

Good points..

Though we have fallen and are in corrupted flesh, we will ever only have one creator, thank you Father for this foundation, amen.

It's all about the connect between heaven and earth.

Without connection to the Father, we are dead spiritually, so this fallen condition, so unsatisfying, is the realm of Satan.

He cuts us off from heaven through our parents, and then through sin if we let him.

Satan controls the flesh if we are unrepentant, but God is still the owner. That is why HE has the right to destroy to cleans.