Continue to expound on this though, go further here I want to hear.

Go, run with it Kland,

Notice the structure of this sentence in Desire of Ages.

"The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled".

The way this sentence is structured is saying that these attributes are all part of the same beings. These are the 24 elders. This is what MY GOD has shown me. I will go to the grave teaching this.

Each of the 24 elders are the commanders of the angelic host for their world just like Michael is for ours.

Each are the CREATED Son's of God like Adam was.

Each are the representatives of their unfallen worlds like Adam was. So Adam must have been one of the 24 elders before his fall.

(I do not know if the number is literal but I believe it is)

This makes scripture perfectly harmonize. But do you realize how badly I have been persecuted sharing this one thought with the church?

It is like pulling teeth to teach people who have been raised thinking a lie, who think they have it all figured out. You would think that they would get the picture when they don't have the Holy Spirit in force with their beliefs. They are willing to put someone out of the church for telling the truth.

Every one of the children of God has an angel. Ok (although I'm not sure about this in relation to the unfallen beings).
But I'm confused about the representatives of the worlds, or created Adams, as you refer to them. Do you mean that they have "strong angels" or that they are the "strong angels"? In case they are the "strong angels" do they also have an angel?

I kind of rushed through that statement; here is what I know so far on this very deep subject which is still manifesting understanding in my heart.

Before Adam fell he was the prince of this world with a crown just like the other elder representatives have.

The 24 elders are the commanders of the angelic host for their universe. They work in harmony with the angels to do what is needed for their people directly, in the name of God. They hold the golden censers filled with the prayers of their people and ask the Father to unlock the storehouse for their needs. (Remember; they are still under probation until the second advent, the end of probation)

It's all about possession. If we are possessed by demons, Satan and His angels work in us. If we are with God, righteous angels dwell in and strengthen us and this how the Holy Spirit, Christ in us, is manifested. The angels are the path for the Holy Spirit to enter into us from heaven.

The unfallen beings of other worlds are filled with the holy Spirit, they have never lost this connection. So they are working in perfect harmony with their angels, and they each do not need many angels because they live in an unfallen world. Each have one in relation to the position of the fathers of their tribes.

Michael is the commander of the angelic host of all of heaven not just one universe. Michael is the creator of the angels. "heaven’s Prince, the Archangel, Michael".{RC 90} He is the commander in chief of the elders and angelic host. But one of His commanders fell and Satan became the prince of this world. Michael took the throne of earth back so our connection could be reestablished to heaven. He fills in for Adam in the elders lineup until his resurrection.

"you shall see angels ascending and descending upon the Son of Man".

By virtue of Jesus living the perfect life and ascending to heaven undefiled, He has the right to the position that Adam fell from, and when we are led by faith to accept him, He becomes "Michael your prince" {Daniel 12:1} the second Adam.

Every earthly human being has a guardian angel unless they are sealed for destruction, reprobate. Those who are filled with the Holy Spirit are called the (adopted) Son's of God and have many angels posted around them for protection and strength to do God's will in this fallen world. The humans who have much responsibility, blessed with greater gifts, i.e. prophets, ministers, teachers, have angels who are more powerful in their standing before the Father.

"Only as they were united with Christ could the disciples hope to have the accompanying power of the Holy Spirit and the co-operation of angels of heaven. With the help of these divine agencies they would present before the world a united front and would be victorious in the conflict they were compelled to wage unceasingly against the powers of darkness. As they should continue to labor unitedly, heavenly messengers would go before them, opening the way; hearts would be prepared for the reception of truth, and many would be won to Christ. So long as they remained united, the church would go forth “fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners.” Song of Solomon 6:10. Nothing could withstand her onward progress. The church would advance from victory to victory, gloriously fulfilling her divine mission of proclaiming the gospel to the world." {AA 90.2}

"Let us cultivate the simplicity of little children. The precious Bible, the Book of God, is our instructor. To all who will walk humbly with God He will give His Holy Spirit and will minister to them through the agency of holy angels to make right impressions upon human minds.—Manuscript 77, 1909. {Ev 629.4}

Sorry, but I don't buy into the parallel or multi-universe theory. Not sure if that's what you intended or universe being their world/planet. I was only trying to reconcile where it sounded like Ellen White said sons of Gods are angels only. Your comment made me think it could be inclusive.

"There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,—all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. {DA 834.1}

I see this as several groups and not all the same one:

• There are cherubim and seraphim.
• The commanders of the angel hosts,
• the sons of God,
• the representatives of the unfallen worlds,

If you make it referring to all the same one, I'm afraid you may have problems where they are used elsewhere. But if you go with separate groups, one would have to assume that sons of God could be overlapping, so I don't know. Are commanders, representatives and cherubim and seraphim NOT sons of God?

Didn't think this was a new idea. Especially not a different enough one to put one out of the church!
Suppose it is not literal. Is there any other case where 24 indicates a completeness or fullness?

Suppose it is literal? I notice it is double of 12. Coincidence? What does this imply? Did God only create 12/24 worlds and ours was the last one? Or was God creating worlds and it happened to fail on the 12/24th one and that is why there were 12 disciples?

Suppose it revolves around 12. Does that mean there were two representatives for our world? If Adam was one, who was the other? Eve? Adam's angel?

I only meant to run with this thought, I added the other elements for further consideration.

Brother Kland, (please read this carefully, I prayerfully spent hours on this for you)

Lets look at the context of this quote and be systematic in our approach here. This is the scene of Jesus after His resurrection, entering into heaven with "those raised with Him as representatives of that great multitude who shall come forth from the grave at His second coming". To this point He has not allowed ANYONE to worship him. He will not even let the angels worship Him yet, He waved them back. So to this point there has been no proclaiming "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain" as in Revelation 5:11 the text we are debating. Here is the full quote from Desire of Ages;


So to this point the only ones in this scene are the angels and the elders. Both groups make up the representatives of unfallen worlds; the heavenly council. The representatives of the redeemed of earth are behind Him following in His train not in this scene before Him. Continuing...


So when Jesus ascends and comes into the scene of Revelation 5 no one from the mini-resurrection is next to the throne, they are behind Jesus waiting to be presented. They could not possibly be a part of the 24 elders. Is this logical? It is after the sacrifice is accepted and they are presented to the Father that the angels, the elders and the redeemed get to proclaim "worthy is the lamb who was slain".

Now lets look at the full quote in Revelation 5 starting in verse 5;


This scene in Revelation chapter 5 encompasses every major scene in the plan of Salvation which has the proclamation of "worthy is the lamb who was slain" from the ascension, to the first resurrection, to the second resurrection. To prove this point, look at the three different scenes in the Spirit of Prophecy which has these words proclaimed in them. The first one, the ascension has been covered. Here is the second scene with that proclamation.


Now the last scene where this proclamation is significantly illustrated is at the second resurrection, when every knee shall bow and tongue confess.


Something came to me tonight which has to do with the heart of this debate here. Who are the "commanders of the angels" from the Desire of Ages quote at the top?

We know Jesus is the commander in chief of the angels, the prince of heaven, and Satan coveted His position, but why was he so jealous of Jesus after the plan of creating men was announced?


After the announcement of the creation of the "son's of God" and the revealing of Jesus as the rightful ruler of heaven Satan rallied other angels to rebel with him.


Here is more proof of the position God created men to have even within each family on earth...


The elders of each created world are the commanders of the angelic host. I am very persuaded on this point now.

I have been extremely blessed in this pursuit of knowledge tonight. God has proven His leading for me once again.I hope you all are as blessed as I have been by this, in the righteous name of Jesus amen.