***** Edited by Daryl Fawcett to say that I created this new thread out of another thread, as it was Off Topic to that other thread. *****

Elle : I don't agree with her evil definition as the Bible is clear that it is the Lord who created evil.

James : (WHAT?!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS ELLE?!!!)

Elle : What?!!!, you're not aware of this??? Maybe you're too busy reading what EGW said that you forget to read the greather light???

Bible : I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. | Isaiah 45:7

Here's a small sample of other texts about the relation of evil with the Lord.

God Sent an Evil Spirit
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech: Jdg 9:23

And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 1Sa 16:23 see also v. 15,16


God Brought all this Evil
And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil. 1Ki 9:9

And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 1KI 17:20

Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again. 2Ch 34:28

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold. Job 42:11

Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath. Neh 13:18

And they came in, and possessed it; but they obeyed not thy voice, neither walked in thy law; they have done nothing of all that thou commandedst them to do: therefore thou hast caused all this evil to come upon them: Jer 32:23

For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them. Jer 32:42

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah; and, behold, this day they [are] a desolation, and no man dwelleth therein, Jer 44:2

Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, [both] sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, [even] concerning all that I have brought upon it. Eze 14:22

Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God [is] righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. Dan 9:14

Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them: because I have spoken unto them, but they have not heard; and I have called unto them, but they have not answered. Jer 35:17

Go and speak to Ebedmelech the Ethiopian, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring my words upon this city for evil, and not for good; and they shall be [accomplished] in that day before thee. Jer 39:16


God DONE the Evil
If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull [you] down, and I will plant you, and not pluck [you] up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you. Jer 42:10

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]? Amo 3:6


God Pronounced or said this evil

And the captain of the guard took Jeremiah, and said unto him, The LORD thy God hath pronounced this evil upon this place. Jer 40:2


And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did [it] not. Jon 3:10

Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

God is the author of “light” and “peace.” He permits “evil”, that men and angels may witness the result of a departure from the eternal principles of right. In Scripture God is often represented as causing that which He does not prevent. Since God is supreme, His refusal to restrain the forces of evil is often represented as though He directly sends the evil. An example may be found in the incident of the fiery serpents. According to the narrative as related by Moses, “the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people” (Numbers 21:6). However, these “fiery serpents” were not suddenly created or miraculously transported from some other region for the occasion; they already infested the wilderness area through which the children of Israel were traveling and would have been a source of real danger and the cause of frequent deaths had not God, by miracle, subdued these venomous reptiles. But when the people turned against the God who protected them from the many hazards of the desert, God simply withdrew His protection, and death was the result.

You prove that scripture in the mouth of the unsanctified is used for evil.

"God did not create evil. He only made the good, which was like himself. But Satan would not be content to know the will of God and do it. His curiosity was on the stretch to know that which God had not designed he should know. Evil, sin, and death were not created by God; they are the result of disobedience, which originated in Satan. But the knowledge of evil now in the world was brought in through the cunning of Satan. These are very hard and expensive lessons; but men will learn them, and many will never be convinced that it is bliss to be ignorant of a certain kind of knowledge, which arises from unsatisfied desires and unholy aims. The sons and daughters of Adam are fully as inquisitive and presumptuous as was Eve in seeking forbidden knowledge. They gain an experience, a knowledge, which God never designed they should have; and the result will be, as it was to our first parents, the loss of their Eden home. When will human beings learn that which is demonstrated so thoroughly before them?" {RH August 4, 1910, par. 4}

God takes responsibility for creating Lucifer from which evil came from. For to use that text in the literal sense proves you do not know the righteousness of God Elle. Please repent of this evil that you cast on God.

"God has not restrained the powers of darkness from carrying forward their deadly work of vitiating the air, one of the sources of life and nutrition, with a deadly miasma. Not only is vegetable life affected but man suffers from pestilence.... These things are the result of drops from the vials of God’s wrath [God takes responsibility for that which he allows or does not prevent. See Exodus 7:3; 8:32; 1 Chronicles 10:4, 13, 14.] being sprinkled on the earth, and are but faint representations of what will be in the near future.—Selected Messages 3:391 (1891). {LDE 27.1}

Moses showed the greatest connection to God by taking responsibility for his people. Jesus took responsibility for us when He cried forgive them for they know not what they do.

Right now that is my cry for you.

Apl, does the texts given above say that the Lord permits "evil"? Why do you insist to say what the Bible doesn't say? You're changing His word.

I believed and said the same thing for this is what we were taught. But this is not what the plain texts of many scriptures says. I don't have time to expand on this. I already did at least 3 times here in this forum. I don't remember where but I'll try to find it. This is getting off-topic also.

***** Edited by Daryl Fawcett to say that I created a new thread for all of these posts that were off-topic to the other thread, therefore, these posts are now on-topic in this new thread. *****

elle, Hebrews 1 tells us where to find the right interpretation.

I don't see the interpretation, could you expand?

Did God kill Saul? No Saul killed himself but Chronicles 10:14 says God slew Saul when Saul killed himself.

God took responsibility for the evil Saul committed.

Jesus takes responsibility for our sins, they are counted against Him when we confess and ask forgiveness, but did He commit them?

When Isaiah quoted God as saying "I created evil" (which is a bad translation , it should read "Making peace, and preparing evil" YLT) God is saying that He created beings with free will. He did not put a restraint on us to keep us from committing evil deeds. God made Satan as a free moral agent not an automaton forced to do His will.

Jesus is in control. He is sovereign. We manage the choices, but Jesus manages the consequences. Nothing happens by fate or chance. Jesus manages things in several ways:

1. He does it.
2. He commands holy angels to do it.
3. He permits men to do it.
4. He permits evil angels to do it.

Whether He does it, commands it, or permits it He is ultimately in control of the outcome. He establishes and enforces limits to ensure things do not exceed what He is willing to do, command, or permit. Not everything is cause and effect. Sometimes things happen as punishment and not the direct result of what someone did.

For example, the Flood was punishment for sin and not the direct cause and effect result of sinning. Sinning did not trigger the forces of nature to cause the Flood. Nature is not self-acting. It merely acts out the will of Jesus. He did not create the forces of nature and turn it loose to behave accordingly. Everything nature does, good or bad, is the direct result of how Jesus chooses to employ the forces of nature.

On the other hand, most of the time consequences are related to the choices people make. For example, smoking can cause cancer. However, it is incorrect to assume the laws of health are self-acting. Jesus manages the laws of health. How they act, and the consequences, are the direct result of how Jesus employs them.

So there is no such thing as cause and effect. The health laws are not self-acting. Jesus has to come in and inflict the damage. Really?

I think there are natural consequences in relation to our wrong choices.

If I choose to drink too much strong drink, I am going to get intoxicated.