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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152667
05/29/13 01:58 PM
05/29/13 01:58 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Adam's posterity - yes. Who was Jesus's father? Who was Him mother?

The quote you posted says:

Because of sin, his posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. ... not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity. {13MR 18.1}

1) We are born with evil propensities.
2) Not for a moment (not even at birth) was there in him an evil propensity.
3) Bear also in mind that we still have evil propensities after the new birth.

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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: Rosangela] #152669
05/29/13 02:18 PM
05/29/13 02:18 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The "only definition of sin":

Quote:
It is the privilege of every sinner to ask his teacher what sin really is. Give me a definition of sin. We have one in 1 John 3. "Sin is the transgression of the law." Now this is the only definition of sin in the whole Bible. {1SAT 228.2}

Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is "the transgression of the law;" it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government. {GC 492.2}

The only definition of sin in the Word of God is given us in 1 John 3:4. "Sin is the transgression of the law." {OHC 141.3}

"Sin is the transgression of the law." This is the only definition of sin. {7BC 951.3}

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." This is the only definition of sin given in the Holy Scriptures, and we should seek to understand what sin is, lest any of us be found in opposition to the God of heaven. {RH, July 15, 1890 par. 2}

"Sin is the transgression of the law." This is the only definition of sin in the entire Bible. Sin, therefore, is not a state of being. We are not sin. Sin is a state of doing. Sinning requires choice and behavior (which includes thoughts). We must choose to cherish or act out tempting unholy thoughts and feelings to be guilty of sinning. However, all temptations begin as unholy thoughts and feelings. Consequently, we must discern the difference between being tempted and being guilty. If we immediately recognize and resist tempting unholy thoughts and feelings we incur no guilt or condemnation. We are more than conquerors. Of course, we must abide in Jesus and trust the Holy Spirit to empower us to use our facilities of mind and body to successfully resist temptations unto God's honor and glory. Thank you, Jesus!

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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: asygo] #152670
05/29/13 02:35 PM
05/29/13 02:35 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
What is the nature of sin?

Sin is selfishness. It is more a characteristic than an act.
You are right - selfishness is a characteristic.

Leaves are green, that is a characteristic. Leave produce sugars by photosynthesis, that is an act. Both being green and producing sugar do not describe nature of the leaf.

What is the nature of sin?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152671
05/29/13 02:44 PM
05/29/13 02:44 PM
APL  Offline
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Posts: 6,368
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Originally Posted By: Bible
"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.


OK - What law? How it is transgressed? How does transgression of this law cause all the illness and death in both man, animals and plants?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152672
05/29/13 02:47 PM
05/29/13 02:47 PM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: mm
Sinning requires choice and behavior
Therefore, a newborn baby is completely sin free. Being sin free, they should be disease free. Is this the case?
Originally Posted By: EGW
It is true that all suffering results from the transgression of God's law {DA 471.3}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"I present the Word of the Lord God of Israel, because of transgression the curse of God has come upon the earth itself, upon the cattle, and upon all flesh. Human beings are suffering the results of their own course of action in departing from the commandments of God. The beasts also suffer under the curse. Disease in cattle is making meat-eating a dangerous matter. The Lord's curse is upon the earth, upon man, upon beasts, upon the fish, and as transgression becomes almost universal, the curse will be permitted to become as broad and as deep as the transgression. Disease is contracted by the use of meat. The diseased flesh of these dead carcasses is sold in the market-places, and disease among men is the sure result. The Lord would bring His people into a position where they will not touch or taste the flesh of dead animals. There is no safety in eating of the flesh of dead animals, and in a short time the milk of the cows will also be excluded from the diet of God's commandment-keeping people. In a short time it will not be safe to use anything that comes from the animal creation."--Unpublished Testimony, July 26, 1898. {PUR, November 7, 1901 par. 1}
How is it that the transgression brings the curse upon the earth itself? Particularly if sin is only a thought? How is it the transgression becomes universal? How is it that disease is contracted from eating animals, is all disease is caused by sin, and sin is only a thought pattern?

Last edited by APL; 05/29/13 03:00 PM.

Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152673
05/29/13 03:44 PM
05/29/13 03:44 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
What is the nature of sin?

Sin is selfishness. It is more a characteristic than an act.
You are right - selfishness is a characteristic.

Leaves are green, that is a characteristic. Leave produce sugars by photosynthesis, that is an act. Both being green and producing sugar do not describe nature of the leaf.

What is the nature of sin?

You have now gotten too abstract for my understanding. And repeating the same question ad infinitum will not help me.

Sin is incongruence with God's character. If you want something more exotic than that, I'll leave it to others to fill your need.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: asygo] #152674
05/29/13 03:51 PM
05/29/13 03:51 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
You have now gotten too abstract for my understanding. And repeating the same question ad infinitum will not help me.

Sin is incongruence with God's character. If you want something more exotic than that, I'll leave it to others to fill your need.
I repeat the question because you have not provided an answer. And that is the point! The nature of sin has been obscured by the evil one. Sin not only affects humans, but all nature. Therefore, it can not be just a thought process on the part of humans.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: Rick H] #152675
05/29/13 03:51 PM
05/29/13 03:51 PM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Rick H
No, because when we are born again, we have the same power to be transformed to be dead to sin in the path to sanctification, at what point the Holy Spirit is involved is moot as the end result is the same.

Let's consider that. John the Baptist was born filled with the Spirit. Was he in the same condition as Jesus was at birth? Were they equally holy?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: asygo] #152681
05/30/13 09:43 AM
05/30/13 09:43 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,245
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Rick H
No, because when we are born again, we have the same power to be transformed to be dead to sin in the path to sanctification, at what point the Holy Spirit is involved is moot as the end result is the same.

Let's consider that. John the Baptist was born filled with the Spirit. Was he in the same condition as Jesus was at birth? Were they equally holy?
That is a very good question. Would you say John also was born with all the affects of sin, when the race had been weakened by four thousand years of sin. So then you have to decide what affect being filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb had.

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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: Rick H] #152682
05/30/13 01:02 PM
05/30/13 01:02 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: AT Jones
And that this is likeness to man as he is in his fallen, sinful nature and not as he was in his original, sinless nature is made certain by the word: "We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death." Therefore, as man is since he became subject to death, this is what we see Jesus to be, in His place as man. {1905 ATJ, CWCP 21.2}
Man is not "sinful", full of sin. EGW is clear that Jesus took on our sinful nature, but never "participated" in its sin. Isaiah 53 and Matthews 8:17 says He took on our sickness. Jesus was born with sin, was tempted as we are, but never "participated" in our sin.

One should read the whole chapter by AT Jones where the excerpt above is taken. It is very clear that sin is in our nature, it is real and physical, and Jesus took on that nature, and cured it in Himself, Hebrews 1:3; Hebrews 2:14-16; 1 Peter 2:24; 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Last edited by APL; 05/30/13 01:19 PM.

Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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