The problem with the legal view is you got God pleading with God to not punish the sinners whom God sent His son to save from himself. Really? NO. Makes no sense at all. And I think our young people see this and it turns God into a tyrant. God is the one to be feared, not sin or the devil. The devil's picture of God is one who is a harsh creditor, a stern severe judge. Sin is the cause of all suffering and death. Not God. EGW: God made man perfect and holy and happy; and the fair earth, as it came from the Creator's hand, bore no blight of decay nor shadow of the curse. It is transgression of God's law that has brought woe and death. What brought woe and death? Sin. Note her wording very carefully. Man, as God created him, was perfect and holy and happy. Man is not now as God created him. We have changed. We inherit this blight, and it is accumulating from generation to generation. Is this a legal problem? Is all creation under legal condemnation? NO.

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

It is healing we need.

Do I deny that Christ bore the condemnation of sin in our behalf? Not at all! He became sin for us. He carried our sin literally, in His body on the tree. He knows our sickness, our sorrows, he was a man of the same. And by going through this in our behave, He is our faithful high priest to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. I rejoice in this. It means he knows how to heal all who come to Him.

I deny substitution? No. I deny penal substitution, that somehow, legally punishing Christ in some way saves me. I support real substitution. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ was obedient to every requirement of the law. He said of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God; yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. When on earth, He said to His disciples, "I have kept My Father's commandments." John 15:10. By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah. {COL 311.4}

That's real substitution.

The problem is that you don't put all the EGW quotes together. I've already answered this, and you didn't explain the quotes:



You don't seem to realize that your theory goes against what Ellen White says.

You must think that death is the worst thing that can happen to an incorrigible sinner. That's common, but very wrong. The worst fate for a sinner is eternal life, the best is eternal death. And that's exactly what God says is going to happen.

Do you really think that sin and/or Satan will give the sinner what is in the sinner's best interests? Or does Satan want immortal sinners, but was thwarted in Eden?

What do you think is best for an incorrigible sinner: life or death? Once you answer that, ask yourself this: Who will give that to the sinner, God or Satan?

Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. {GC 539.3}

You present "God pleading with God to not punish the sinners whom God sent His son to save from himself" and mock it, only to replace it with another faulty idea. The fact is the Godhead - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - is working out the best destiny for each person, whether it is eternal life or eternal death. Some people think that it is always good to plead for eternal life, but God is wiser and more merciful than that.

If God wanted to give a person life, but Satan wanted that person dead, do you really think Satan's will can override God's will? Is Satan that powerful? I don't think so.

I see a serious flaw in this argument. It doesn't take into consideration that God created the law of cause and effect. He annexed penalties for the transgression of His laws, whether physical or moral. Our bodies (and minds) could simply have been created in a different way. For instance, eating carrion does no harm to black vultures, but what will it do to you? Radiation does no harm to a cockroach, but what will it do to you? It’s obvious that God affixed a penalty for acting in certain ways.

“The will of God establishes the connection between cause and its effects.”{ApM 26.1}

Absolutely!!! Cause and Effect!!! The penalties are not extrinsically applied, they are intrinsic. God designs our bodies and all aspect of our bodies are controlled by laws. Violating these laws don't get us into legal trouble, they get us into real trouble.

BTW - radiation - why does radiation kill us? It scrambles our DNA. But the breakage happens at the added non-original DNA. But I digress...

I find it so interesting that you think you know what I think. How do you do that? Why do you do that? Interesting...

I think your assumptions are wrong. You state:Satan is the destroyer, God is the restorer. That said, is it Satan that kills the sinner or God? Wrong question! Sin kills. Sin causes death. It is true that Satan is the author of sin and its results. God is not the killer. "Sin, when IT is full grown, brings death", James 1:15.

Thus saith the Lord through Ellen White:



Who says, in the Bible, APL, "I will destroy thee, O covering cherub!"

Can sin speak? Is sin a sentient being? Is sin God?

You say God does not destroy. He says He will. Who are we supposed to believe? Should I believe God, the Bible and Ellen White? Or should I believe APL instead, and trust him to show me the proper way to salvation against all of these inspired writings?

I know Who I'll trust.

And what about that little mention of "sin and sinners will perish?" Why is sin mentioned first? What would happen to APL's poor theory if sin were destroyed before sinners? Hmmm....I guess the sinners would not then be able to be destroyed by sin, right? Because sin would already be extinct.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I do that based on your obscure non-answers. You are opaque. You are unable or unwilling to give plain answers. It's sad, not interesting.

You make it sound like sin is sentient, with a will and the power to effect it's decisions. But we know that is not the case. There are only two combatants in this war.

We also know that the unrepentant sinner will die. Whose will is it that such a one should die rather than live eternally? IOW, who made it so that sin is self-limiting because it kills its victims?