There is another aspect of this that we do not always consider: What are the commandments?
Have you noticed that the commandments, and especially the ten commandments are frequently called The Covenant? It seems to me like the Bible uses the term "The Covenant" more frequently than "The Ten Commandments".

If you consider these ten commandments as the terms of a covenant they are not merely terms dictated by an arbitrator but the conditions agreed on by both parties. This is why the relationship between man and God is referred to in Scripture like a marriage where both parties agree to the terms of a union.

Some Hebrew scholars point to the fact that the wording of the Ten Commandments in Hebrew sounds somewhat different from the usual rendering in the English language. The Hebrew does not quite say "Thou shalt not," but could be understood in covenant terms as

"Under this covenant there is no other God. . ."

"This covenant permits no killing. . ."

"This covenant permits no untruthfulness. . . "

Considering what the Scripture says about the Sabbath, we see that the Sabbath is a memorial and a seal of the covenant between man and God and therefore unthinkable that we should forget the Sabbath Day because we live in a covenant with our Creator.

1. Is there a reason why the Bible calls these commandments "The Covenant"?

2. Is there a reason why Scripture is not satisfied with the commandments being only on stones, but a living reality in our hearts?

3. Is there a reason why the prophets (Isa. 53-58, Micah 3-7) bring the message that the killing of thousands of animals in the Levitical priestly service has no real meaning until the child born in Bethlehem has removed our sins and made the living reality of the covenant a part of our lives when He has thrown our misdeeds down into the bottom of the deepest ocean?

4. Is there a reason why the wording of the commandments in Ex. 20 and in Deut. 5 is not fully identical? Have you noticed the difference?

Good thoughts here, Johann.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

??? Where did you get your definition of “testimony”(t’uwdah=attestation, usage). We need to get our word definition from the Bible. This Hebrew word is used 3 times in the Bible by which Ruth 4:7 brings forth the definition in reference to the law.
You must of mist Post # 151948 from this discussion.


No Rosangela that’s is not what the Lord says in His word. The Lord has set Moses(the Law given to him) as the standard to test any messages or prophets according to Deut 13 & Deut 18.

Then also, what you are saying is too broad, and impractical. The Lord has sent many prophets in the past 6 milleniums and there's no way possible that anyone can know all the revelation given making it a prerequisite of testing a message.

To test something, you need to test it to a LAW, not a theory. The test is as good as the standard you are testing it against. What was given to Moses was the LAW(not a theory nor was there any question of the validity of the revelation) because it came from the Lord which was witnessed by the whole assembly accompanied with many manifestation of the presence of the Lord.

The LAW given to Moses is the standard from which all things are to be tested from.

The Law of Moses is the only foundation establish by the Lord where He reveal His plan of salvation in great detail. We know the Law is prophetic and Jesus said that all of the law will be fulfilled. Much of the Law is still not fulfilled and there's no other plans that is and will be fulfilled besides what is given in the Pentateuch. Maybe some details of some portion of the plan are reveal to prophets for a certain time period, but the underline of the plan is all known in the law.

All prophets or messages has to be tested against the Law. If it doesn't talk accordingly, it means it's not the Lord's plan(or message) but someone elses.

Johann if you read what the Bible actually says, the covenant that was made by the Lord with the children of Jacob was not about “especially the 10Cs”. The covenant ceremony is described in Ex 24:1-11 and it says in v.3 that “all the words of the Lord and the Judgments” is the content of the covenant. In v.4 Moses writes all these words in a scroll, and in v.7 he read that scroll at the covenant ceremony where the blood is sprinkled on the altar and the people who made the vow to obey these.

The people vowed three times to keep the Covenant

1st -- in Ex 19:7 The first vow was made before the covenant ceremony and before they receive the official 10Cs and the Judgments. It was a respond from the Lord saying in Ex 19:3 “if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant”. So for the Israelites to agree to keep the Lord’s covenant, they must of already have known most of the content of it from Moses’ and their forefather’s teachings. In Ex 18:16 we know that Moses was already teaching the people the laws and judgments. Also we know that the laws and judgments, and charges were known to Abraham which he taught to his sons and was passed down from generation to generations.

2nd --in Ex 24:3 when Moses tells the people the words of the Lord and judgments received in Ex 21, 22, & 23

3rd -- in Ex 24:7 when Moses reads the scroll containing "all the words of the Lord and the Judgments”


The People's Vow
This covenant was a two party covenant and was conditional – based on the people’s obedience--" and all the people answered with one voice, and said "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.” Ex 24:3,7
This covenant differ from the one made with Abraham which was a one party covenant and was unconditional based on the work and promise of the Lord.
These two covenants need to be understood and reconciled into one.

The 10Cs was a Intro-Summary of the Covenant
At the beginning of the covenant ceremony in Ex 24, first the content of the covenant needed to be heard by the people. This started in Ex 20 with the 10Cs which the Lord spoke and every people in the congregation heard His words for themselves. This was only the introduction/summary of the covenant – there was more but it got interrupted by the people because they couldn’t tolerate hearing anymore and they all backed off away from the mount and begged Moses, “Speak thou with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us lest we die.” So they only heard the introduction of the covenant and Moses had to go up to receive the rest (Ex 21, 22 & 23) which was repeated to the people after he came down the Mount in Ex 24:3. After the people heard the whole convenant twice -- the covenant ceremony resumed with the sprinkling of the blood to seal the covenant.

So written inside that covenant was the 10Cs and the Judgments and other words of the Lord found in Ex 21, 22, & 23 minimum.

Is it not interesting that the law that was symbolically internalized into the Ark of the Covenant was the 10C? Deuteronomy 5,6 tells what law was to be written on our heart. Is that not the New Covenant? Jeremiah 31 tells us that the New Covenant will be written on our "inward parts", and Deuteronomy it telling us what law that is. The New Covenant is not that new in that it existed before the old, or second covenant. The difference being that the new was ratified by the blood of the sacrifice after the old. In fact, the new covenant is the original design.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

If had my own translation this is how that verse would read. "To the law of Moses which foreshadows the work of Christ as our High Priest and the Testimonies of God's own mouth and hand, the Ten Commandments, if anyone testifies to anything that is not in harmony with that doctrine, it is because they do not have Christ in them."

Norman

What does your own translation mean to you?

Hi Kland,

what I wrote is what it means to me. I'm not sure if you meant something else.

Norman

I guess I'm saying I don't understand what you wrote means. What does what you wrote mean to you?

Your translation would of not been in harmony with other scriptures Norman. Did you botter reading Exodus 19 to 24 and other texts relating to the incidence of the given of the laws? It is clear that the 10Cs was only a summary of the laws and what followed detailed the 10Cs further with other laws.