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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Rosangela]
#153518
06/23/13 02:18 AM
06/23/13 02:18 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Notice some key words of EGW. "The apparent severity of God's dealings" Apparent? Question - The case of the Golden Calf was an act of rebellion, right? So color all that you have quoted with this from EGW: Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. {DA 759.1} Question - do you hear something different in this quote than your quotes Rosangela? Do you see a disconnect here or not? There is a solution...
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#153524
06/23/13 03:07 AM
06/23/13 03:07 AM
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Notice some key words of EGW. "The apparent severity of God's dealings" Apparent? Question - The case of the Golden Calf was an act of rebellion, right? So color all that you have quoted with this from EGW: Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. {DA 759.1} Question - do you hear something different in this quote than your quotes Rosangela? Do you see a disconnect here or not? There is a solution... I would say part of your solution lies in the definition of words like "force" and "compelling power." These words speak to forcing an individual to act against his or her will. These words do not speak of what one might do to punish those who offend. Remember, God punishes rebels. "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry" (1 Samuel 15:23). What was to be done with a witch? "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18). In other words, punishing the witch with death is not the same as forcing the witch to become a Christian. God does not force the will. But God punishes. There is a definite line in between. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153527
06/23/13 04:19 AM
06/23/13 04:19 AM
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So rebellion is only overcome by killing the rebel and that is not force? Very interesting....
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#153530
06/23/13 04:29 AM
06/23/13 04:29 AM
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APL, - The law of God is a representation of His character. I'm sure you're well aware of this.
- The law says transgressors must die. I think you know this, too.
- Anyone who dies, then, has received punishment according to the law.
If receiving one's punishment equals "force," then you have defined God as a God of force, in direct contradiction to what we are told through the pen of inspiration. Punishment is not forced, however, as anyone had probationary time to choose God's salvation. Their choice was not forced, which is why many will have chosen the way of death, and have been allowed their freedom to choose such. Having made their choice, it is granted them, according to the love of God who allowed them their choice. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153531
06/23/13 04:41 AM
06/23/13 04:41 AM
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SDA
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To do what God tells us not to do, or not to do what He tells us to do, is to go in the way of death. This is not because God punishes with death those who do not obey Him, but because sin itself brings forth death. Sin is the evil seed of which death is the bitter fruit. {June 12, 1902 EJW, PTUK 378.6} Let the aged men who were pioneers in our work speak plainly. (Manuscript 62, 1905) Repeat the words of the pioneers in our work, who knew what it cost to search for the truth as for hidden treasure, and who labored to lay the foundation of our work. (Review and Herald, March 25, 1905)
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#153533
06/23/13 04:53 AM
06/23/13 04:53 AM
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SDA
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I BELIEVE THE BIBLE
And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that [is] in the sea.
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all [them which are] circumcised with the uncircumcised; Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all [that are] in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all [these] nations [are] uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel [are] uncircumcised in the heart.
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: ...
But I will punish you according to the fruit of your doings, saith the LORD: ...
...I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity...
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed: he shall not have a man to dwell among this people; neither shall he behold the good that I will do for my people, saith the LORD; because he hath taught rebellion against the LORD.
And this [shall be] a sign unto you, saith the LORD, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil:
The LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saith; Behold, I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods, and their kings; even Pharaoh, and [all] them that trust in him:
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land, as I have punished the king of Assyria.
The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Don't you believe the Bible, APL? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153539
06/23/13 06:37 AM
06/23/13 06:37 AM
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OP
SDA
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You did not answer the question. By your reply, am I to understand that you do not agree with the quotation? It is hard to argue such plain statements that our pioneers believed. They understood the scriptures.
Deuteronomy 32:22-30
22 My anger will flame up like fire and burn everything on earth. It will reach to the world below and consume the roots of the mountains.
23 " 'I will bring on them endless disasters and use all my arrows against them.
24 They will die from hunger and fever; they will die from terrible diseases. I will send wild animals to attack them, and poisonous snakes to bite them.
25 War will bring death in the streets; terrors will strike in the homes. Young men and young women will die; neither babies nor old people will be spared.
26 I would have destroyed them completely, so that no one would remember them.
27 But I could not let their enemies boast that they had defeated my people, when it was I myself who had crushed them.'
28 "Israel is a nation without sense; they have no wisdom at all.
29 They fail to see why they were defeated; they cannot understand what happened.
30 Why were a thousand defeated by one, and ten thousand by only two? The LORD, their God, had abandoned them; their mighty God had given them up.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#153541
06/23/13 06:40 AM
06/23/13 06:40 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
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You did not answer the question. By your reply, am I to understand that you do not agree with the quotation? It is hard to argue such plain statements that our pioneers believed. They understood the scriptures. APL, You used this same quotation in another thread where I already answered it. Were you wanting to hear me say it twice? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153548
06/23/13 07:49 AM
06/23/13 07:49 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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You did not answer the question. By your reply, am I to understand that you do not agree with the quotation? It is hard to argue such plain statements that our pioneers believed. They understood the scriptures. APL, You used this same quotation in another thread where I already answered it. Were you wanting to hear me say it twice? Blessings, Green Cochoa. Hm - threads often are not answered or read at the same time. I know you do not believe this statement as being truth. I know you also do not believe EGW's similar quotes, such as GC36. But then, I quoted that on another thread.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#153566
06/23/13 04:10 PM
06/23/13 04:10 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Notice some key words of EGW. "The apparent severity of God's dealings" Apparent? Yes, apparent. APL, if my horse breaks his leg irreparably, do you think I should let the animal continue living in agony, because if kill him I don't love him; on the contrary, I'm heartless, mercyless and cruel?
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