Already about 70 years ago I heard an Adventist psychiatrist explain that while Satan is unable to create life he has the ability to manipulate what God has created. Ellen White explains how Satan changes plants and the nature of animals. She uses the word "amalgamation" in this connection and that explains how she uses that word in statements that have often been referred to by the critics of Ellen White.

This post of yours, APL, clearly shows the incongruity of your thinking. You believe that we all die the first death because of Adam's sin, but then you also believe that the Bible teaches "we die for our own sins."

It's impossible to argue against such incongruities. If one is able to accept such an incongruity....

As for my position, I still say you have not been able to answer the question I asked. Why does God raise the wicked? For what purpose? Sin already killed them. Why kill them again?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Let's try a small experiment. APL believes SIN punishes us, NOT God. So, let's adjust the wording a little in one of those special cases we find God's Word.

FROM:


TO:


If we just change a few words here and there, we can easily be made to believe that "sin" does indeed punish.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I used an expression borrowed from my teacher Carsten Johnsen whose writings are now on a CD together with the writings of Ellen White. With these words he describes a conspiracy evoked by Nygren and Tillich which has penetrated into Adventism and makes us interpret Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy through a faulty philosophy. It affects our picture of God.

Several posters here show us that they are under this pagan influence. We need the healing of the Holy Spirit.

Did God punish Jesus for the sins of the world?



The notion that God would not punish was part of the deception by which the antediluvians were blinded in the time of Noah.


Jesus' words are truer today than ever--that when He comes it will be as it was in the days of Noah.

Some here on this forum are proving Jesus to be true in their doctrine that God will not punish the transgressors of His law.

I see this doctrine as just as dangerous today as it was in the days of Noah. Many perished then on its account, and many will likewise perish today for this same falsehood. It discourages me to see it so dogmatically adhered to and pushed by some members of this forum.


I wonder if encouraging others to hold incorrect beliefs is one of these evils. Sobering thoughts for us here.


Either Ellen White was a true prophet, and God will punish, or she was not.

Concerned,

Green Cochoa.

Originally Posted By: green

This post of yours, APL, clearly shows the incongruity of your thinking. You believe that we all die the first death because of Adam's sin, but then you also believe that the Bible teaches "we die for our own sins."

First death all suffer. The death that is the final death is for our own. As it is written:
Romans 5:12 Why, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed on all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Ezekiel 18:14-17 Now, see, if he beget a son, that sees all his father's sins which he has done, and considers, and does not such like, 15 That has not eaten on the mountains, neither has lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, has not defiled his neighbor's wife, 16 Neither has oppressed any, has not withheld the pledge, neither has spoiled by violence, but has given his bread to the hungry, and has covered the naked with a garment, 17 That has taken off his hand from the poor, that has not received usury nor increase, has executed my judgments, has walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

Ezekiel 18:21-23 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he has committed, they shall not be mentioned to him: in his righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? said the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

By beholding, we become changed. If we think that God will actively torture sinners, then we will do the same.

If this thread is to continue, every participant here needs to be listening to what each other is saying.

My belief is that the Bible doesn't contradict itself.

I also believe that EGW also doesn't contradict herself.

I also believe in the unfolding of New Light and new understanding, but only to a limit, with that limit being that it doesn't go contrary to any of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA Church.

With the above being said, it may soon become necessary to close this thread for Admin Team review and for a summary statement to be posted in relation to our stand as the Admin Team of Maritime.

Ellen White spoke of God punishing in that first quote. You appear to use another quote of hers to counter her first quote. Using Ellen White against Ellen White?

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.