APL,

I don't understand it either. You said "The temptation is now inherent to the individual." You then defined "inherent" to mean "existing as an essential constituent or characteristic."

Putting the two together (and I'm just doing the logical "math" here), I find APL seeming to state the following:



Am I twisting what you say? Perhaps you would like to explain one of your foregoing statements differently so that I can arrive at a nearer understanding to what you believe.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Where do temptations come from. You will agree that Satan is the source of temptions, right? At least I think you do. But there is more. So there is Satan and their is the sinful flesh, which is inherited. It is genetic. But you don't believe that, do you... Satan and Heredity. DNA. And who is the source of this DNA? NOT GOD! God's works are perfect.The heredity that tempts us, inherent in our sinful (full of sin) flesh, must be overcome. Christ overcame for us. He took our nature and overcame, for us. That pesky DNA stuff keeps popup up all over EGW's writings. This is how He was made to be sin. It was in His flesh, the same fallen nature which gives us so many temptations. He took the same and overcame, for us.

Satan is not the only source of temptations, APL, at least not in my belief.

I will ask one simple question:

Who tempted Lucifer when he was perfect?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Temptation is enticement to sin, and this does not proceed from God, but from 1) Satan and from 2) the evil of our own hearts. {MB 116.2}

The problem is you believe there was evil in Christ's heart, and we disagree with you.

Christ's character was spotless. It is written: Hebrews 4:15 Our High Priest is not one who cannot feel sympathy for our weaknesses. On the contrary, we have a High Priest who was tempted in every way that we are, but did not sin.

In EVERY WAY.

By taking upon Himself man's nature in its fallen condition, Christ did not in the least participate in its sin. He was subject to the infirmities and weaknesses of the flesh with which humanity is encompassed, "that it might be fulfilled that was spoken by the prophet Esaias, Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses." He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and was in all points tempted like as we are. And yet He was without a spot. {16MR 116.3}

APL,

Who tempted Lucifer when he was perfect? Was it his DNA? If so, was God to blame?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Perhaps you should read Desire of Ages page 58. God is not to blame. We can not explain the existence of sin, why would Satan do what he did. But just because we can explain why, we can know what he did. He corrupted that which God had made. I highly recommend PP chap. 1, "Why was Sin Permitted?" and GC chap. 29, "The Origin of Evil". Read them multiple time. Ezekiel 28:18, and Jude 6 gives us hints. Sin corrupts and destroys what God has made. We can look at our world and see that everything has been corrupted, and how it has been corrupted.

I know God was not to blame.

I was asking what YOU believe. I'm glad to hear you also believe that God was not to blame. That's a good start.

Since God was not to blame, it must have had nothing to do with his "DNA" (if indeed angels even have such, which frankly I doubt). God created Lucifer to be a perfect being. God did not tempt him. And there was no "Satan" to tempt the perfect Lucifer. He came upon a realization of sin quite gradually, and almost imperceptibly, through his own thoughts and questionings of his heart.

Lucifer originated sin, without any external temptation. He was tempted, who was perfect, from within. Therefore, we, who are imperfect, have so much the more opportunity to tempt ourselves without anyone's help. However, Satan may yet receive the credit for having enticed us into sin in the first place.

You see, Christ was made to be sin for us. But there were two goats represented in the sacrificial atonement--one for the Lord, and one for Satan. Satan also receives the guilt of many sins which he himself never committed--for he will bear the sins of all those who are saved and who are not punished for their sins. Satan will receive their punishment.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

G:I know God was not to blame.

I was asking what YOU believe. I'm glad to hear you also believe that God was not to blame. That's a good start.

A: Which tells me you have ignored most of what I've said if you are just discovering this now.

Since God was not to blame, it must have had nothing to do with his "DNA" (if indeed angels even have such, which frankly I doubt).

Can you tell me of ANY CREATED life form that does not have DNA? No. It is not a hard stretch to believe that ALL life has DNA?

God created Lucifer to be a perfect being. God did not tempt him. And there was no "Satan" to tempt the perfect Lucifer. He came upon a realization of sin quite gradually, and almost imperceptibly, through his own thoughts and questionings of his heart.

Yes, but there is more. He sought to "correct" the law of God in heaven, he wanted to supply an "amendment".

Lucifer originated sin, without any external temptation. He was tempted, who was perfect, from within. Therefore, we, who are imperfect, have so much the more opportunity to tempt ourselves without anyone's help. However, Satan may yet receive the credit for having enticed us into sin in the first place. 

You see, Christ was made to be sin for us. But there were two goats represented in the sacrificial atonement--one for the Lord, and one for Satan. Satan also receives the guilt of many sins which he himself never committed--for he will bear the sins of all those who are saved and who are not punished for their sins. Satan will receive their punishment.

Yes, Christ was made to be sin for us, and you have not said how that happens. I'm guessing you think it was symbolic or legal. That is the theme of this thread.

Yes, there were two goats. WHO do the two goats represent? They represent Christ and Satan. Christ manifested Himself to angels before before sin as an angel looking just like all the other inhabitants of heaven. They are pictured as standing on either side of the throne of God with their wings over His head. The controversy began when Lucifer realised that the other "angel" could do something he couldn't, that is, enter into the bright light which surrounded the Father and commune with Him, and he became jealous. The two covering cherubs in the most holy place were identical except that one stood at the right hand and one at the left of God. Satan, the scapegoat. The “fit” man leads the sinful goat away into the wilderness of the earth, AND LETS HIM GO TO DO WHAT HE WILL. (Revelation 20:1-3) It is no part of God’s plan to kill any of His creatures. Sin will do that from within despite His efforts to stop it. Romans 6:23; Ezekiel 28:18.

Exodus 25:18-20 And you shall make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shall you make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on the two ends thereof. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.

Ezekiel 28:14-18
14 You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were on the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the middle of the stones of fire.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the middle of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the middle of the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, that they may behold you.
18 You have defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the middle of you, it shall devour you, and I will bring you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all them that behold you.

Satan was perfect when he was created. He corrupted his sanctuaries, by his iniquities. He corrupted himself because he thought he could be like God. And has corrupted ALL life on this planet. "When he found that he could not be as God, he was filled with rebellion, and would not submit his will to the will of God." {ST, September 18, 1893 par. 1} Yes, Satan created sin, it is real. Christ when He manifested God to us, took our fallen sinful nature, and overcame it for us.

According to Ellen White, there are two sources of temptation: Satan and the evil of our own hearts. If Christ didn't have any evil in His heart, it stands to reason that He could only be tempted by Satan.