And therefore, you can turn your brain off!

Out of context? Really... What is does the last sentence say? What about God as the executioner? Was this only for Israel of that day? How about Ezekiel 28, was that only to the King of Tyre? Is Isaiah 14 only talking about the king of Babylon? This quote is talking to more that just Israel. "Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty." Is this speaking only to Israel of that day? Nope.

And since God killed Saul by abandoning him, that must be the only tool in His toolbox by which to kill anyone.

We can overlook the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, Uzzah, Nadab, Abihu, and a host of others, because God didn't merely "abandon" them. So, it must not have been God. In fact, it cannot have been God, because my opinion tells me so, and so does my pastor.

(Is that the way we are to close our minds?)

It's always easy to hold to one's first opinion when one rejects all evidence to the contrary.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I can think of a quote the EGW says, "Thoughtful investigation and earnest, taxing study are necessary to an understanding of this word. {CT 483.2}" Taxing study! "God sent fiery serpents". Simple statement, easy to understand, BUT, how did God sent the serpents? Why did he send the serpents? Was it a simple matter of punishment? How is this a demonstration of the Great Controversy? In the same book, she writes, "The Bible is its own expositor. Scripture is to be compared with scripture. The student should learn to view the word as a whole and to see the relation of its parts. He should gain a knowledge of its grand central theme-- of God's original purpose for the world, of the rise of the great controversy, and of the work of redemption. He should understand the nature of the two principles that are contending for the supremacy, and should learn to trace their working through the records of history and prophecy to the great consummation. He should see how this controversy enters into every phase of human experience; how in every act of life he himself reveals the one or the other of the two antagonistic motives; and how, whether he will or not, he is even now deciding upon which side of the controversy he will be found. {CT 462.1} "

NOTE - We need to know what the Grand Central theme of the Bible is. There are only TWO principles contending for supremacy, what are they? Every act of life only works on these two antagonistic motives. These are questions I need to ask about every line of scripture I read.

APL,

Please tell me how God sent the abyss for Korah, Dathan and Abiram.
Please tell me how God sent the fire to kill Nadab and Abihu.
Please tell me how God killed Uzzah.
Please tell me how God sent the flood.
Please tell me how God sent the fire upon Sodom.

I have yet to hear you explain how God did any of these things (or did not do, as your opinion may be). I have only heard you continue to utter the same words as ever before that "God didn't do it."

But to me, your "taxing study" is about as diligent as that of most Adventists who, when trying to explain away the secret rapture theory, say, "But that text in Matthew can't be saying people are raptured secretly, because over here in Revelation it says that 'every eye shall see him.'" Most Adventists continue to explain that it cannot be what the Baptists think because...then give some other text that shows a different scenario. BUT, what they fail to do is to explain the problem text of Matthew or Luke that speaks of the "rapture."

APL, you, likewise, cannot call that "diligent" which is unable to explain the portion of scripture under study. You can try to support your own views with your own texts, but when given a text that does not appear to agree with your view, diligence requires that you are able to explain that text too, and to fit it into the larger picture.

You, therefore, if you wish to be diligent, must be able to explain those things I have brought up here.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green - I don't have all the answers, does that surprise you?, But I have looked at these stories and have some ideas from the Bible and science. You did not mention the quail incident or the 185, 000 Assyrians. With all these stories, I need to take all the other stories in the Bible, and then line them up. Have your read Deuteronomy 32 for example?

Take the first one you listed, Korah, et al. Quite honestly, I don't think anything will change your mind. God directly punishes you say, though YOU throw out the obvious statements of EGW against the punishment come directly from God. How then does it happen as GC36 says, God withdraws his protection, and freedom demands that He must. Here are a few "Karst Hazard Assessment of Eastern Saudi Arabia", Natural Hazards 15:21-30, 1997 by Ammar A. Amin. Abstract at lease is online. Another, google the legend of Ubar on the Arabian trade routes. Another, "Subsidence and Sinkhole Hazard Assessment in the Southern Dead Sea Area, Jordan", Pure-Appl: geophysics, 162(2005) 221-248. Or this link, look at some of the pictures - HERE. If you get the idea, these Karst hazards are dangerous. There may be huge caverns with very thin coverings. If God miraculously maintains the integrity of the cave, as He did with the Children of Israels, water suppies, their food supplies, their cloths not wearing out, protection from serpents, etc, he also was protecting them from geologic hazards. Remove that protection, then what? You will say, yeah I have not proved anything. God gives us evidence, and evidence that appeals to the reason! Yet He has not removed all possibility of doubt. "Those who wish to doubt will have opportunity; while those who really desire to know the truth will find plenty of evidence on which to rest their faith. {SC 105.2}" I see evidence that the Korah episode is just like the fiery serpent episode, is just like Deuteronomy 32, is just like Saul, is just like the destruction of Jerusalem, and many more.

Originally Posted By: green

APL, you, likewise, cannot call that "diligent" which is unable to explain the portion of scripture under study. You can try to support your own views with your own texts, but when given a text that does not appear to agree with your view, diligence requires that you are able to explain that text too, and to fit it into the larger picture.

What I see is that you are accusing me of doing exactly what you are do. When EGW says, "God destroys no man", or "God is not the executioner", you totally ignore this very straight forward statements. When it is written, "God punishes", you stop and do not ask the question, HOW does God punish, what other examples do we have? Line up all the stories, a picture does develop. You can choose to ignore the most clear statements as you have, or you an integrate them all to a consistent view which I think God is showing us. It is not found superficially.

I don't see how it shoots it down, but I do see how it reveals that there is a punishment side to God, even if it is referred to as God's strange act/s.

No, the Bible was only quoting what somebody said, like the Insurance Companies do today as an exemption clause.

God's punishment is just like His wrath.