APL,

When God asked David which of the three options he wanted for punishment for his sin, which one did David choose?

David had the option. He could have chosen to have God send him to his enemies. But instead, he chose to fall into the hands of God for his punishment.

I believe that there is an important lesson here for us.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Genesis 6:13 And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

QUOTES FROM "THE GREAT CONTROVERSY" CHAPTER 1 - THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM

For nearly forty years after the doom of Jerusalem had been pronounced by Christ Himself, the Lord delayed His judgments upon the city and the nation... [sounds like the time before the flood]

There were still many among the Jews who were ignorant of the character and the work of Christ. [we are still ignorant of God's character] And the children had not enjoyed the opportunities or received the light which their parents had spurned. Through the preaching of the apostles and their associates, God would cause light to shine upon them; they would be permitted to see how prophecy had been fulfilled, not only in the birth and life of Christ, but in His death and resurrection. The children were not condemned for the sins of the parents; but when, with a knowledge of all the light given to their parents, the children rejected the additional light granted to themselves, they became partakers of the parents' sins, and filled up the measure of their iniquity.

The long-suffering of God toward Jerusalem only confirmed the Jews in their stubborn impenitence. In their hatred and cruelty toward the disciples of Jesus they rejected the last offer of mercy. Then God withdrew His protection from them and removed His restraining power from Satan and his angels [and all that Satan has unleashed into God's creation], and the nation was left to the control of the leader she had chosen. Her children had spurned the grace of Christ, which would have enabled them to subdue their evil impulses, [if we reject God, will God have evil impulses which will lash out and kill us?] and now these became the conquerors. Satan aroused the fiercest and most debased passions of the soul. Men did not reason; they were beyond reason--controlled by impulse and blind rage. They became satanic in their cruelty. In the family and in the nation, among the highest and the lowest classes alike, there was suspicion, envy, hatred, strife, rebellion, murder. There was no safety anywhere. [are sinners unsafe because God is going to kill them? Should we be afraid of Satan or God, or I suppose BOTH] Friends and kindred betrayed one another. Parents slew their children, and children their parents. The rulers of the people had no power to rule themselves. Uncontrolled passions made them tyrants. The Jews had accepted false testimony to condemn the innocent Son of God. Now false accusations made their own lives uncertain. By their actions they had long been saying: "Cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us." Isaiah 30:11. Now their desire was granted. The fear of God no longer disturbed them. Satan was at the head of the nation, and the highest civil and religious authorities were under his sway.

But Israel had spurned the divine protection, and now she had no defense. [the antediluvian world spurned God's protection too. And they had men that had known Adam]

All the predictions [God's judgments] given by Christ concerning the destruction of Jerusalem were fulfilled to the letter. The Jews experienced the truth of His words of warning: "With what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7:2. [cause and effect]

Not one Christian perished in the destruction of Jerusalem. Christ had given His disciples warning, and all who believed His words watched for the promised sign. [Noah's family was spared]

The blind obstinacy of the Jewish leaders [do we have obstinace today?], and the detestable crimes perpetrated within the besieged city, excited the horror and indignation of the Romans, and Titus at last decided to take the temple by storm. [These were the leaders of God's chosen people. Will this be repeated?]

"O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. [their iniquity caused their destruction, or God? Which is it???] Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. [thus sayest green] It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. [conceal? HINT] By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, [a weak and sentimental God?] and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. [hm - sounds like Isaiah 1:5,6] The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. [Satan's power, or God's punishment?]

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. [or how much God will torture those that don't love Him?] It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy [holding in check the consequences that SIN brings] and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. [does God not raise the wicked back to life in order to punish them, but no longer than they deserve] But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; [God is NOT the executioner of the sentence against transgression - transgression = sin. This statement is too plain it cannot be explained away.] but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul [caused by the works of the devil], and [AND] no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. [This is the conclusion of the matter. Sinners will meet certain punishment, but how is God invoved???]

Who slew Saul?

Your question does not make sense, since sin is always the cause of death and destruction. However, sin is not the agent of destruction. So a more appropriate question would be, Did sin cause the physical death of the Jews, or was it caused by the weapons of the Romans? Which is it?

A more appropriate question would be, Sinners will meet certain punishment, but how is sin involved? Is it physically?

"O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. [their iniquity caused their destruction, or God? Which is it???]



You are saying sin always causes death, but it does not cause death. Sounds logical... :-(

Read both chapters of the quoted book.

Hosea 13:14 Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from Death? O Death, where are your plagues? O Sheol, where is your destruction? Compassion is hidden from my eyes.

Because of their sin, God will not and can not rescue them. "Compassion is hidden from my eyes". His mercy has ceased. This is His "strange act". Yes, sin is the cause of their death. The weapons of the attackers do cause their death, but why are THEY attacking? Sin. Sin is the cause of all death and destruction and Satan is sin's "author".

Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. [This is the conclusion of the matter. Sinners will meet certain punishment, but how is God invoved???]

The question of God's involvement is absolutely relavent. Is the testimony here in presented to be applied to Israel in AD70 only? No, it is a testimony to the destruction that sin causes, the punishment that is brought on to the sinner, not a punishment directly inflicted by God, but brought on by sin itself, if you read the whole paragraph and the preceding paragraph. Such as "Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God." But this is what you are saying is truth, that God does punish sin by direct decree. The next paragraph again says, "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression;". But you are saying He does directly execute the sentence.

Yes, that's what I said. And what I mean is, the Jews didn't die because something physical inside them was the agent of their death.

Rosangela - the Jews have not died the second death yet either, which is the wages of sin, Romans 6:23...

I'm glad to see that you acknowledge this truth.

What causes a person's "first death" and what causes a person's "second death?" If sin causes both, what is the distinction between the two, and why is the second round necessary?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The answer to "who slew Saul" is more complicated than the answer to who slew Nadab and Abihu, and it involves a different set of circumstances. It was not a sword, powered by human muscles or choice, that brought Nadab and Abihu to their ends. What happened to them?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.