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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154246
07/18/13 09:34 PM
07/18/13 09:34 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Truth is truth regardless who speaks it and with what motive it is spoken. I suppose Paul missed your point when he wrote 1 Cor. 13!
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Johann]
#154250
07/18/13 11:41 PM
07/18/13 11:41 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Truth is truth regardless who speaks it and with what motive it is spoken. I suppose Paul missed your point when he wrote 1 Cor. 13! Paul never had an opportunity to hear anything from me, as you well know. But I have not missed his point. He was not addressing the concept of truth. He was addressing faith, hope and love. He never once contradicts what I have said regarding truth always being truth. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154259
07/19/13 10:27 AM
07/19/13 10:27 AM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Truth is truth regardless who speaks it and with what motive it is spoken. I suppose Paul missed your point when he wrote 1 Cor. 13! Paul never had an opportunity to hear anything from me, as you well know. But I have not missed his point. He was not addressing the concept of truth. He was addressing faith, hope and love. He never once contradicts what I have said regarding truth always being truth. Blessings, Green Cochoa. So? How do you separate truth from faith, hope and love? Too hard to figure that out?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Johann]
#154261
07/19/13 12:00 PM
07/19/13 12:00 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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The devils also believe, and tremble. Belief has to do with knowledge of truth. But it does not necessary equal faith. The devil can speak truth, even though he is faithless and wicked.
Truth is always truth, regardless of who says it and with what attitude it is conveyed. Love is important, because it communicates the truth in a way that makes it palatable to the hearer. But truth is still truth even if it is spoken without faith, without hope, or without love.
An interesting example of this was when the witch of Endor spoke to Saul. The words spoken were truth (the devil knew God had rejected Saul, and could accurately predict what was in his future), but the words were entirely devoid of faith, hope, or love. They caused Saul to despair, and assisted the prophecy in becoming self-fulfilling.
Also, the demons shouted that Jesus was the Son of God on multiple occasions. They spoke the truth.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154265
07/19/13 12:57 PM
07/19/13 12:57 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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Somehow, in your mind, every time you see "God destroyed" or "God will destroy" you translate it to mean "God allowed Satan to destroy" or "God will let Satan destroy." You believe that God is too good, too soft, too merciful, too loving, too tender to ever hurt anyone or anything. You believe that all of creation has been affected by sin, and that thorns and thistles were not even part of God's plan, but that of the enemy, despite God's words to the contrary.
So you are saying APL has an incorrect view about God, that he has only a partial truth about God. So what would you say so that he has a more correct view? APL needs to believe in a God that is more ..... what?
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154266
07/19/13 01:00 PM
07/19/13 01:00 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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An interesting example of this was when the witch of Endor spoke to Saul. The words spoken were truth (the devil knew God had rejected Saul, and could accurately predict what was in his future), but the words were entirely devoid of faith, hope, or love. They caused Saul to despair, and assisted the prophecy in becoming self-fulfilling.
Wait! >>> Self<<< fulfilling? You sure about that?
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: kland]
#154277
07/20/13 04:41 AM
07/20/13 04:41 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Furthermore, the act of Saul in consulting a sorceress is cited in Scripture as one reason why he was rejected by God and abandoned to destruction: "Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; and inquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." 1 Chronicles 10:13, 14. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154278
07/20/13 05:41 AM
07/20/13 05:41 AM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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How can you learn to draw hope, strength, assurance, and light from the Word of God? That is, how can you have a deeper experience with the Lord through coming to know Him as He is revealed in the Bible? SS lesson
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: APL]
#154279
07/20/13 06:47 AM
07/20/13 06:47 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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The urgent message is -- Turn oh my people, turn from sin and accept the cleansing and love of our Lord and Savior, for why would you die? God has no delight in the death of the wicked. (See Eze. 33:11) Please finish the statement, from your perspective!!! God had no delight in the death of the wicked, but He will kill you if you do not change. That really is what you are implying, right? Please tell me I'm wrong. Sin will not be allowed to go on forever. God poured out all heaven to redeem us, to enable us to change. His love is yearning for us to change because there is NO LIFE apart from Him. He is the only source of life, and when we turn away from Him we not only despise the temporal life He has granted us now, but we are rejecting life eternal. In the end everyone receives what they chose. Its sort of like this parable concerning electricity. Imagine that there is only one company that has the ability to offer electricity. Everyone is given a basic "electricity kit" that lasts a couple of years and supplies basic needs for light, heat, etc. Everyone is given the offer that they can have permanent electricity that will give them far more advantages if they will only allow the company manager to come in and change their system in preparation. But most don't want anyone coming in to change anything, they look to the couple years of basic electricity as an end in itself. They steal others electricity, they misuse their own etc, etc. And after their couple years their electricity is gone. During all this the company sends out message after message telling them they have something so much better for them, won't they allow the changes to be made? After all it's free and it's eternal. But sometimes the abuse is so great that a company manager has to go out and remove the electricity from some individual before that individual destroys his whole community. Sometimes the electricity itself kills an individual because it's misused. More commonly individuals simply run out of electricity after a couple years and that's the end (for awhile). Finally the company is ready to begin the REAL electricity living -- with more light and advantages than anyone could imagine. For a few moments everyone, absolutely everyone, has electricity again. But those who refused to allow the changes to be made earlier, now realize what they refused, the enormous surge of electricity only causes them to "burn up". Those who did allow the changes to be made live in the "light of His glory" forever. Now some might say, the company didn't kill them -- they weren't shielded from the excess electricity and that killed them. True -- However, who sent the excess electricity? God's brightness is like a great electrical display of sparks and fire. Those who didn't allow God to prepare them, will be die in that fire. Did God kill them? Well they weren't shielded from the consuming fire, it was their own doing, their own choice. But who exposed them to that fire?
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Re: does God punish?
[Re: kland]
#154280
07/20/13 06:58 AM
07/20/13 06:58 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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They caused Saul to despair, and assisted the prophecy in becoming self-fulfilling.
Wait! >>> Self<<< fulfilling? You sure about that? Saul was wounded in battle. Instead of allowing the enemy to capture him, he fell upon his own sword. It's true that more times than not in this life, God does withdraw His protection. Yes, the prophecy was "self fulfilling". You tell someone often enough that they will fail, or that they are "good for nothing" those remarks often become "self-fulfilling", as the person begins to believe it and stops trying.
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