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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154344
07/22/13 01:05 AM
07/22/13 01:05 AM
Rosangela  Offline
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Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Why does the law need to be written in order to be known? The law in this sinful planet was only written 2500 years after Adam's fall, yet after his fall Adam received the 10 precepts from God (as he had received the 2 great precepts before) and transmitted them to his posterity.

The moral law of God is the crucial point in the great controversy.

"'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' Lucifer disputed the justice of this requirement in heaven, and thought its existence altogether unnecessary. ... He who knows the end from the beginning, had his laws and commandments before the world was created, and Satan chose to question his claims before the angels of heaven, because the law set forth the Omnipotent as the only true and living God, and forbade the worship of any other being. The authority of God was backed up by the requirements of his law, which was to hold jurisdiction over all created intelligences. The will of God was to be recognized in his requirements and acknowledged as supreme in the heavenly universe. {ST, September 24, 1894 par. 1-3}

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Rosangela] #154345
07/22/13 02:39 AM
07/22/13 02:39 AM
APL  Offline
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Do you think the angels when around thinking, Oh, I have to worship God and give Him glory, it is the law. Or did they do it naturally? Did they need to be reminded what that law was? Go back to the quote of EGW: "the thought that there was a law came to the angels almost as an awakening to something unthought of." What were the angels thinking here? God's law is written into the very fabric of their being. Transgression of physical law is transgression of the moral law. God's law is written on every nerve, every muscle, every fiber of our being. You can't change what God has made. This is what Satan tried to do. He put aside God's authority and tried to make himself "better". This you can not do. He corrupted Adam and Eve, changing them from the way they were created. And ALL life on this planet has been affected.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154357
07/22/13 02:35 PM
07/22/13 02:35 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa

An interesting example of this was when the witch of Endor spoke to Saul. The words spoken were truth (the devil knew God had rejected Saul, and could accurately predict what was in his future), but the words were entirely devoid of faith, hope, or love. They caused Saul to despair, and assisted the prophecy in becoming self-fulfilling.
Wait!
>>>Self<<< fulfilling? You sure about that?


Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Quote:
Ellen White
Furthermore, the act of Saul in consulting a sorceress is cited in Scripture as one reason why he was rejected by God and abandoned to destruction: "Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; and inquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." 1 Chronicles 10:13, 14.

If you meant that in response to my question, I note, "why he was rejected by God and abandoned to destruction".

What do you make of that?

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154365
07/22/13 04:02 PM
07/22/13 04:02 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Do you think the angels when around thinking, Oh, I have to worship God and give Him glory, it is the law. Or did they do it naturally? Did they need to be reminded what that law was? Go back to the quote of EGW: "the thought that there was a law came to the angels almost as an awakening to something unthought of." What were the angels thinking here? God's law is written into the very fabric of their being. Transgression of physical law is transgression of the moral law. God's law is written on every nerve, every muscle, every fiber of our being. You can't change what God has made. This is what Satan tried to do. He put aside God's authority and tried to make himself "better". This you can not do. He corrupted Adam and Eve, changing them from the way they were created. And ALL life on this planet has been affected.

The angels didn't think very much about the law because there was no sin. They didn't need to choose between right and wrong. But once sin entered the universe, even unfallen creatures had to begin making choices between right and wrong. God's moral law was also written in Adam and Eve's heart (mind), however before sin they started to make conscious choices between obeying God and disobeying Him.
Every transgression of the physical laws is a transgression of the moral law just because you are disobeying God's word and will as to how you should treat your body. But not all transgression of the moral law is a transgression of the physical laws. If you worship an image, which physical laws are you transgressing?

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Rosangela] #154367
07/22/13 05:36 PM
07/22/13 05:36 PM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: rosangela
The angels didn't think very much about the law because there was no sin. They didn't need to choose between right and wrong. But once sin entered the universe, even unfallen creatures had to begin making choices between right and wrong. God's moral law was also written in Adam and Eve's heart (mind), however before sin they started to make conscious choices between obeying God and disobeying Him.
Is God's law written on every muscle, not just the "heart (mind)", brain? Yes. God's law is written on every part. What is the New Covenant?
Jeremiah 31:30-33
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eats the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Originally Posted By: rosangela
Every transgression of the physical laws is a transgression of the moral law just because you are disobeying God's word and will as to how you should treat your body. But not all transgression of the moral law is a transgression of the physical laws. If you worship an image, which physical laws are you transgressing?

Do you think that worship does not have a real physical effect? Fascinating new brain research which I will not go into depth here now that there are two brain pathways. One is not original. It will take to long to explain. All I'll say now is that Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he:


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154368
07/22/13 07:44 PM
07/22/13 07:44 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
The word translated as "inward parts" in the KJV is qereb. It's the seat of the thoughts, emotions, and decisions (Jer 9:8, where it is translated as "heart"). It is essentially synonymous with “heart,” and it does not refer to DNA.

God's moral law is written in the heart.

Adam and Eve at their creation had knowledge of the original law of God. It was imprinted upon their hearts, and they were acquainted with the claims of law upon them. (RH April 29, 1875). {1BC 1084.7}

The law writen in our physical body is, of course, God's physical law of life and health.

Transgression of physical law is transgression of the moral law; for God is as truly the author of physical laws as He is the author of the moral law. His law is written with His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every faculty, which has been entrusted to man. And every misuse of any part of our organism is a violation of that law. {COL 347.1}

While they depend upon divine strength to break the bonds of appetite, they are to cooperate with God by obedience to His laws, both moral and physical. {CD 445.4}

Some of our most talented ministers are doing themselves great injury by their defective manner of speaking. While teaching the people their duty to obey God's moral law, they should not be found violating his physical laws. {GW92 147.1}

There is a close relation between the moral law and the laws that God had established in the physical world. If men would be obedient to the law of God, carrying out in their lives the principles of its ten precepts, the principles of righteousness that it teaches would be a safeguard against wrong habits. But as through the indulgence of perverted appetite they have declined in virtue, so they have become weakened through their own immoral practices and their violation of physical laws. The suffering and anguish that we see everywhere, the deformity, decrepitude, disease, and imbecility now flooding the world, make it a lazar house in comparison with what it might be even now, if God's moral law and the law which He has implanted in our being were obeyed. By his own persistent violation of these laws, man has greatly aggravated the evils resulting from the transgression in Eden.--RH, Feb 11, 1902. {2MCP 567.2,3}

The law of God is as sacred as God Himself. It is a revelation of His will, a transcript of His character, the expression of divine love and wisdom. The harmony of creation depends upon the perfect conformity of all beings, of everything, animate and inanimate, to the law of the Creator. God has ordained laws for the government, not only of living beings, but of all the operations of nature. Everything is under fixed laws, which cannot be disregarded. But while everything in nature is governed by natural laws, man alone, of all that inhabits the earth, is amenable to moral law. To man, the crowning work of creation, God has given power to understand His requirements, to comprehend the justice and beneficence of His law, and its sacred claims upon him; and of man unswerving obedience is required. (PP 52)

Although these laws are interrelated, there is a clear distinction between them.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Rosangela] #154369
07/22/13 08:11 PM
07/22/13 08:11 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
HOW is the law written on the heart. HOW is it imprinted. Please explain.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154370
07/22/13 11:06 PM
07/22/13 11:06 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
This is figurative, not literal language. "Heart" means "mind." A carnal mind, on which the law is not written, is a mind not in harmony with the law; a mind controlled by selfishness, that is, a mind which has a disinclination to truth and virtue (TDG 34.4), a mind with propensities of disobedience (5BC 1128.4). To answer your question, a heart or mind on which the law of God is imprinted is simply a mind in harmony with the law, that is, a mind which delights in truth and virtue, delights in obedience. "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart" (Ps 40:8). Man's will and God's will harmonize. This is not something physical. It belongs to the spiritual realm.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Rosangela] #154371
07/23/13 12:02 AM
07/23/13 12:02 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: rosangela
This is not something physical. It belongs to the spiritual realm.
Hm. So its not physical, it is not "real"?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154372
07/23/13 12:22 AM
07/23/13 12:22 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Do you think that the work of the Holy Spirit is physical? And, if it's not physical it's not real?

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