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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: asygo] #154615
08/03/13 04:29 PM
08/03/13 04:29 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Since APL was using the filter of science to understand the spiritual matters..
You have it backwards.

Originally Posted By: APL
I'm only reading the Bible with the science I know.

I read science with the Bible I know. Perhaps I am backwards compared to you, but I'll stick to this methodology.
Science can only be interpreted from the viewpoint of the Bible. Read GC chapter 32. he rules of Bible interpretation say to take the Bible as it reads. What is Genesis 3:14-18 saying to you, taking it as it reads?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154616
08/03/13 07:15 PM
08/03/13 07:15 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Interesting. The Bible says, in the day you eat, not the day you listen. What part of Genesis is not metaphor? Any part?


It is written, "the eyes of both of them were opened ..." meaning that they came to view themselves in a new way. This is the same idiomatic expression the angel of the Revelation borrows in Rev. 3:18, "anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see."

It is obvious that the mere eating of a fruit does not give understanding or changes character, but eating of "the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil" does! Prov. 18:21 says, "Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit."

In another place it is also written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". In other words, God is the Tree of Life, whose fruit is His word. And His word gives life to the obedient (John 6:54-64, "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day ....

... It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe").

...

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: James Peterson] #154617
08/03/13 07:27 PM
08/03/13 07:27 PM
APL  Offline
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Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154618
08/03/13 09:14 PM
08/03/13 09:14 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ...


"... so HE drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Man was CUT OFF from heaven.

"The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up." (Mat. 4:16)

We know not what we do and like the blind, wade our way through the waters of ignorance. The word of Life in glory which was to be our reward was replaced by the simple command to repent and be good, just so we might be resurrected and live forever, and continue where we left off before Adam turned aside in rebellion.

...

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: James Peterson] #154619
08/03/13 09:57 PM
08/03/13 09:57 PM
APL  Offline
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Do you take any of Genesis literally?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154620
08/03/13 10:54 PM
08/03/13 10:54 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Do you take any of Genesis literally?


Mat. 19:4, "And [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female ..."

Mat. 12:8, "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day ...."

etc., etc.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: James Peterson] #154621
08/04/13 01:07 AM
08/04/13 01:07 AM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
But if the tree is not literal, or God's command to not eat of the tree is not literal, how do you know the rest is not literal? You say God was speaking metaphorically about the tree. Perhaps He was speaking metaphorically about the days of creation? Satan said God lied about dying. Are you saying God lied about the fruit? Are you saying that just thinking wrong will cause ALL CREATION on this planet to fall apart? God's design must not be very good.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154622
08/04/13 01:57 AM
08/04/13 01:57 AM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo

Originally Posted By: APL
I'm only reading the Bible with the science I know.

I read science with the Bible I know. Perhaps I am backwards compared to you, but I'll stick to this methodology.
Science can only be interpreted from the viewpoint of the Bible.

I'm glad to hear you say that. Now it is time to put it to practice and stop trying to squeeze the spiritual matter of sin through your physical/genetic/epigenetic filter. Not everything can be explained by genetic mutations and transfer. Read Genesis 3.

Originally Posted By: APL
Read GC chapter 32. he rules of Bible interpretation say to take the Bible as it reads. What is Genesis 3:14-18 saying to you, taking it as it reads?

It says:
That snake was more cursed than cows
That snake will eat dust until it dies
That snake will be bruised by the woman's seed, but will bruise his heel
Eve was going to be sorrowful when she gives birth
Adam will rule over her
The ground was cursed because of Adam's sin
Adam will be sorrowful as he eats of the ground
The ground will bear thorns and thistles
Adam will eat herbs

Thanks to that little exercise, I am convinced less than ever of the genetic theory of sin.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #154623
08/04/13 02:28 AM
08/04/13 02:28 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL

1. But if the tree is not literal, or God's command to not eat of the tree is not literal, how do you know the rest is not literal?

2. You say God was speaking metaphorically about the tree. Perhaps He was speaking metaphorically about the days of creation?

3. Satan said God lied about dying.

4. Are you saying God lied about the fruit?

5. Are you saying that just thinking wrong will cause ALL CREATION on this planet to fall apart?

6. God's design must not be very good.


1. Literature takes many forms and uses the most appropriate devices to convey relevant messages. "Song of Solomon" is an allegory. "The rich man and Lazarus" is a parable. You must be aware of these things, aren't you?

2. No. The days of creation were literal 24-hour time periods. It is evident that God was not just creating "stuff" (otherwise He would have done everything in an hour), but creating time itself: how long a day should be, a week, a month, a year. He gave it to us: it is our heritage as life itself.

3. No, Satan did not say God lied about dying. In fact, Satan told them the truth (their eyes indeed opened, they indeed 'became like God', and they did not die). What he NEVER told them, and therein lay the deception, was that they were going to forfeit everlasting life. Satan offered them immediate satisfaction, as he has done to everyone since then (Mat. 4:8-9).

4. Titus 1:2

5. Yes. Heb. 3:12-13 cf. 1 Sam. 15:22 & 2 Sam. 12:1-14

6. YOUR understanding of God is not very good.

...
...

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: James Peterson] #154624
08/04/13 02:30 AM
08/04/13 02:30 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Is the tree still a metaphor? And the rest of Genesis?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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