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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: asygo]
#154625
08/04/13 02:56 AM
08/04/13 02:56 AM
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SDA
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Sigh Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; on your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life: snakes today, crawl on the belly - Why? mobile genetic elements in the DNA. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. "seed" - genetic material. God interposed. See: {GC 505.2 and .3} and {16MR 117.3} and {16MR 118.1} Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you. Childbirth - mammalian childbirth has been completely highjacked by mobile genetic elements. Genesis 3:17 And to Adam he said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it: cursed is the ground for your sake; in sorrow shall you eat of it all the days of your life; Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to you; and you shall eat the herb of the field; thorns and thistles - created by God? Nope. Satan. EGW - by his ingenious methods of amalgamation - genetics. {1BC 1085.10} {16MR 247.2} Now it is time to put it to practice and stop trying to squeeze the spiritual matter of sin through your physical/genetic/epigenetic filter. Is that a command? Should I let you do the thinking for me? Nope.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: James Peterson]
#154626
08/04/13 03:00 AM
08/04/13 03:00 AM
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1. But if the tree is not literal, or God's command to not eat of the tree is not literal, how do you know the rest is not literal?
2. You say God was speaking metaphorically about the tree. Perhaps He was speaking metaphorically about the days of creation?
3. Satan said God lied about dying.
4. Are you saying God lied about the fruit?
5. Are you saying that just thinking wrong will cause ALL CREATION on this planet to fall apart?
6. God's design must not be very good.
1. Literature takes many forms and uses the most appropriate devices to convey relevant messages. "Song of Solomon" is an allegory. "The rich man and Lazarus" is a parable. You must be aware of these things, aren't you? 2. No. The days of creation were literal 24-hour time periods. It is evident that God was not just creating "stuff" (otherwise He would have done everything in an hour), but creating time itself: how long a day should be, a week, a month, a year. He gave it to us: it is our heritage as life itself. 3. No, Satan did not say God lied about dying. In fact, Satan told them the truth (their eyes indeed opened, they indeed 'became like God', and they did not die). What he NEVER told them, and therein lay the deception, was that they were going to forfeit everlasting life. Satan offered them immediate satisfaction, as he has done to everyone since then (Mat. 4:8-9). 4. Titus 1:2 5. Yes. Heb. 3:12-13 cf. 1 Sam. 15:22 & 2 Sam. 12:1-14 6. YOUR understanding of God is not very good. ... ... But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die. The Bible says, in the day you EAT there of. You say, the day you THINK there of. I'll trust the Bible.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#154629
08/04/13 05:12 AM
08/04/13 05:12 AM
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Is the tree still a metaphor? And the rest of Genesis?  Psalm 1, esp. verse 3. Prov. 3:13-18
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#154630
08/04/13 05:18 AM
08/04/13 05:18 AM
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1. But if the tree is not literal, or God's command to not eat of the tree is not literal, how do you know the rest is not literal?
2. You say God was speaking metaphorically about the tree. Perhaps He was speaking metaphorically about the days of creation?
3. Satan said God lied about dying.
4. Are you saying God lied about the fruit?
5. Are you saying that just thinking wrong will cause ALL CREATION on this planet to fall apart?
6. God's design must not be very good.
1. Literature takes many forms and uses the most appropriate devices to convey relevant messages. "Song of Solomon" is an allegory. "The rich man and Lazarus" is a parable. You must be aware of these things, aren't you? 2. No. The days of creation were literal 24-hour time periods. It is evident that God was not just creating "stuff" (otherwise He would have done everything in an hour), but creating time itself: how long a day should be, a week, a month, a year. He gave it to us: it is our heritage as life itself. 3. No, Satan did not say God lied about dying. In fact, Satan told them the truth (their eyes indeed opened, they indeed 'became like God', and they did not die). What he NEVER told them, and therein lay the deception, was that they were going to forfeit everlasting life. Satan offered them immediate satisfaction, as he has done to everyone since then (Mat. 4:8-9). 4. Titus 1:2 5. Yes. Heb. 3:12-13 cf. 1 Sam. 15:22 & 2 Sam. 12:1-14 6. YOUR understanding of God is not very good. ... ... But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die. The Bible says, in the day you EAT there of. You say, the day you THINK there of. I'll trust the Bible. I did NOT say, "in the day you THINK thereof" ... I said, "in the day you EAT thereof". Are you OK? Jesus said, "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, SO HE WHO FEEDS ON ME WILL LIVE because of Me." (John 6:57) Don't you read your Bible? ... ...
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: James Peterson]
#154634
08/04/13 06:03 PM
08/04/13 06:03 PM
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I said, "in the day you EAT thereof". Are you OK? The role of the fruit? I'm not sure that there was any role-playing involved. What God was warning Adam against was imitating Satan. In saying, "do not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil," God was speaking metaphorically. So, you are not sure about the fruit. ok. Adam and Eve were not even to listen to Satan But the verse only says, the day you EAT, not the day you LISTEN. You call this metaphoric. Are the 6 day of creation metaphoric? Is Genesis 1-11 (i'll narrow it down some) metaphoric or literal? Yes, there is poetry in the Bible. Is Genesis 1-11 poetry or history? Don't you read your Bible? I'm reading Genesis as it reads, and it is pretty clear. 6. YOUR understanding of God is not very good. And YOU are representing God well? I saw a sadness come over Adam's countenance. He appeared afraid and astonished. A struggle seemed to be going on in his mind. He felt sure that this was the foe against whom they had been warned, and that his wife must die. They must be separated. His love for Eve was strong, and in utter discouragement he resolved to share her fate. He seized the fruit and quickly ate it. {EW 148.1} It was literal.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#154650
08/05/13 04:06 AM
08/05/13 04:06 AM
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Genesis 3:17 And to Adam he said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it: cursed is the ground for your sake; in sorrow shall you eat of it all the days of your life;
Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to you; and you shall eat the herb of the field;
thorns and thistles - created by God? Nope. Satan. EGW - by his ingenious methods of amalgamation - genetics. {1BC 1085.10} {16MR 247.2} There's a problem with your hermeneutics - your filters color everything you see. In short, you see only what you expect to see. Let's look at just your last point as an example. The Bible said that the ground was cursed for Adam's sake. God said it will bring forth thorns and thistles, but you give Satan credit for it. In your view, Satan is the one responsible for cursing the ground for man's sake. To support this view, you use the age-old trick of partially quoting truth. You claim that the SOP says that Satan made the thorns and thistles. Good thing I am familiar with that quote. Here it is in context: All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares. – {16MR 247.2} Note that she did not mention thorns and thistles. But since that's what you are expecting, that's what you see. And this applies to your other assertions. Now it is time to put it to practice and stop trying to squeeze the spiritual matter of sin through your physical/genetic/epigenetic filter. Is that a command? Should I let you do the thinking for me? Nope. You shouldn't stop thinking, but you should stop being a hypocrite. I can't command you, but I won't let you go unchallenged. I just hope that others can see what's going on.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#154653
08/05/13 04:15 AM
08/05/13 04:15 AM
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I said, "in the day you EAT thereof". Are you OK? The role of the fruit? I'm not sure that there was any role-playing involved. What God was warning Adam against was imitating Satan. In saying, "do not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil," God was speaking metaphorically. So, you are not sure about the fruit. ok. Adam and Eve were not even to listen to Satan But the verse only says, the day you EAT, not the day you LISTEN. You call this metaphoric. Are the 6 day of creation metaphoric? Is Genesis 1-11 (i'll narrow it down some) metaphoric or literal? Yes, there is poetry in the Bible. Is Genesis 1-11 poetry or history? Don't you read your Bible? I'm reading Genesis as it reads, and it is pretty clear. 6. YOUR understanding of God is not very good. And YOU are representing God well? I saw a sadness come over Adam's countenance. He appeared afraid and astonished. A struggle seemed to be going on in his mind. He felt sure that this was the foe against whom they had been warned, and that his wife must die. They must be separated. His love for Eve was strong, and in utter discouragement he resolved to share her fate. He seized the fruit and quickly ate it. {EW 148.1} It was literal. "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, SO HE WHO FEEDS ON ME WILL LIVE because of Me." (John 6:57) The tree was metaphorical.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: James Peterson]
#154656
08/05/13 08:36 AM
08/05/13 08:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
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APL, Arnold speaks truth. Notice something else about that quote from Ellen White: All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares. – {16MR 247.2} Where does it say that Satan created the seeds? I don't believe he has that power. He can only "sow" them. And, the statement doesn't say he is the only one who has sown them. It just says that he sows all of the tares. For example, a painter might paint all colors. Does that mean he is the only one who has ever painted those colors? or does that mean that he is quite willing to paint any of them? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154657
08/05/13 12:19 PM
08/05/13 12:19 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
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APL, Arnold speaks truth. Notice something else about that quote from Ellen White: All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares. – {16MR 247.2} Where does it say that Satan created the seeds? I don't believe he has that power. He can only "sow" them. And, the statement doesn't say he is the only one who has sown them. It just says that he sows all of the tares. For example, a painter might paint all colors. Does that mean he is the only one who has ever painted those colors? or does that mean that he is quite willing to paint any of them? Blessings, Green Cochoa. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water,
that bringeth forth his fruit in his season;
his leaf also shall not wither;
and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. (1:3) The tree was metaphorical. ... ...
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: James Peterson]
#154658
08/05/13 01:02 PM
08/05/13 01:02 PM
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SDA
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The tree was metaphorical. Are the days metaphorical? What is literal and what is not?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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