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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: James Peterson]
#154884
08/12/13 01:41 AM
08/12/13 01:41 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Are you asking these questions to seek answers, or merely to prove a point. If the latter, then what point? Because the questions you ask have obvious answers.
Nevertheless, I will answer this one by quoting Jesus Christ. He said, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, AND BELIEVETH IN HIM, may have everlasting life:and I will raise him up at the last day."
Can Buddha do that? Can Mohammed raise anyone up? Can the Pope give life to anyone? So the faith that saves me is the faith that Christ will raise me up? This is strange, because being resurrected and inheriting eternal life are consequences of salvation. In order to inherit eternal life, you must first be righteous. Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Rosangela]
#154886
08/12/13 01:59 AM
08/12/13 01:59 AM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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But it was Christ's blood which purchased salvation. His blood seeped into the ground. It was never given as payment for anything. (Luke 22:44)
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: James Peterson]
#154887
08/12/13 02:16 AM
08/12/13 02:16 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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But it was Christ's blood which purchased salvation. His blood seeped into the ground. It was never given as payment for anything. (Luke 22:44) What does "ransom" mean to you? Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:28) Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Rosangela]
#154895
08/12/13 03:32 AM
08/12/13 03:32 AM
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OP
SDA
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Rosangela, Let me ask you a question - if Jesus died in place of traitors, then why do sinners die in the end? Read your quote, "He stood as the substitute for man, who was under sentence as a traitor, a rebel. Hence Christ died as a malefactor, in the place of the traitors." {17MR 340.1} Christ's death does not save us, do you agree? APL, No, I don't. Salvation is a divine act which demands a human response. There is a divine and a human side in salvation; that's why sinners will die, even though Christ died for them. But it was Christ's blood which purchased salvation. So you are saying we are saved by His death. Really? Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#154898
08/12/13 04:34 AM
08/12/13 04:34 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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So you are saying we are saved by His death. Really? Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. What did He do with that life? He GAVE it up. That means, in the plainest of terms, He died. If Jesus had not died, you could not be saved. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154902
08/12/13 04:49 AM
08/12/13 04:49 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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So you are saying we are saved by His death. Really? Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. What did He do with that life? He GAVE it up. That means, in the plainest of terms, He died. If Jesus had not died, you could not be saved. Blessings, Green Cochoa. And if He be not raised, our faith is in vain. Now re-read Romans 5:10 We were God's enemies, but he made us his friends through the death of his Son. Now that we are God's friends, how much more will we be saved by Christ's life! His death makes us His friends? WHY? Because we clearly see that it is not God punishing Christ, executing Christ, killing Him, it was sin. And going through this, He was raised and the atonement achieved was acceptable, and now He LIVES to make intercession for us. We are saved by His life. YES, His death was NECESSARY, but His death DOES NOT SAVE US. It was part of the process to be sure.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154905
08/12/13 08:09 AM
08/12/13 08:09 AM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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But it was Christ's blood which purchased salvation. His blood seeped into the ground. It was never given as payment for anything. (Luke 22:44) What does "ransom" mean to you? Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:28) Blessings, Green Cochoa. Christ is our Redeemer. His LIFE was payment, THE RANSOM, for our freedom. The Devil was our kidnapper. His DEMAND was the earth and all therein for himself to do as he wished. All his tendencies was toward cruel suppression as Cain killed Abel. The Bible says Christ became human so that he might become our King, and if King, then Judge and if Judge then Saviour of all who believes in Him and Executioner of all who are cruel against His people. As we die, so He endured our pain; that, having endured all as we do, he became righfully the second Adam, and our "EVERLASTING FATHER", Supreme Life-giver of ALL HUMAN BEINGS, King of the earth and all things therein. And the Devil lost his grip on any claims over us. That is how THE RANSOM was paid, a life that was fully human even unto death, a sacrifice symbolized by the cross.
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#154906
08/12/13 08:21 AM
08/12/13 08:21 AM
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SDA
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Posts: 7,003
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His death DOES NOT SAVE US. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (Hebrews 9:15-16) It appears that the "eternal inheritance" was obtained "by means of death." Only by His death could the world be saved. {DA 622.2}
Christ is the sinner's only hope. By his death he brought salvation within the reach of all. Through his grace all may become loyal subjects of God's kingdom. Only by his sacrifice could salvation be brought within man's reach. This sacrifice has made it possible for men and women to fulfil the conditions laid down in the councils of heaven. {RH, March 15, 1906 par. 7}
The angels prostrated themselves before him. They offered their lives. Jesus said to them that he should by his death save many; that the life of an angel could not pay the debt. His life alone could be accepted of his Father as a ransom for man. It is clear in that latter statement that the context of "his life" is that of sacrifice--i.e. his death. One thing is for certain, APL: Your theology is becoming increasingly dangerous and off the mark. It is a danger to yourself, if not to others. You base much on your own opinions, and little upon the timeless truths of Scripture that would test those opinions by a higher standard. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154908
08/12/13 12:36 PM
08/12/13 12:36 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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It appears that the "eternal inheritance" was obtained "by means of death." Green - you left out a word - promise". Does Christ's death give us an absolute guarantee of salvation? No, it is conditional. Why was Christ's death necessary in the first place? Because of the pagan idea that a death was needed to appease God, or to fulfill some legal requirement of the law? Who's law? God's. And your comment: It is clear in that latter statement that the context of "his life" is that of sacrifice--i.e. his death. Did you read the scripture I quoted?? Shall I quote it again? Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. His life before His death or after? YES! (both) Yet you seem to want to ignore His life after His resurrection. This verse is speaking after His resurrection. Hebrews 7:25 Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. We are not saved by Christ's death. I'm no saying His death was not necessary. We are saved by Grace through Faith. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: What is God's grace? Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Titus 3:5-7 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Grace is God's knowledge of how to fix the problem. How was this knowledge acquired? Read all of Isaiah 53. By Christ coming, taking on our fallen human condition, and going through all the way to the death, and not just any death, but the death of a sinner, the second death, answering questions in the great controversy. Particularly the wages of sin, which is not execution by God.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: James Peterson]
#154910
08/12/13 01:11 PM
08/12/13 01:11 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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But it was Christ's blood which purchased salvation. His blood seeped into the ground. It was never given as payment for anything. (Luke 22:44) Your answer is interesting, because it contradicts Scripture. Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, The word "redemption" is apolutrosis (from lutro = ransom), which means: 1) a releasing effected by payment of ransom 1a) redemption, deliverance 1b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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