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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: James Peterson]
#154988
08/13/13 05:24 PM
08/13/13 05:24 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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What Bible verse did you read that taught you that morning stars and sons of God are the Holy Spirit and angels in other dimensions? I don't remember ever reading that directly in the Bible. The abode of God and the angels is outside our physical universe. Jesus said, "God is spirit". There're angels walking about you, and you don't even know. Jesus said God is spirit. He didn't say anything about hidden dimensions. And parallel dimension is not the only way to be invisible. Human senses are severely limited.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: asygo]
#154996
08/13/13 07:51 PM
08/13/13 07:51 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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If angels existed before Day 1, then it is obvious that other things were created before Day 1.
Gen. 1 is about the creation of what has become a physical universe of black holes, exploding stars, barren wasteland and death and suffering. So why do you disagree that other things existed before Day 1? And what Bible verse places the limitation of Day 1 the way you do? Why not limit it to the Solar System? Why not limit it to the extent of unaided human vision? What verse gave you that idea? Sigh! Didn't we discuss this already? When it is written, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth", it is speaking of the primordial dark mass of singularity that he would use to create heaven (and all things therein) and earth (and all things thereon). EVERYTHING MATERIAL comes from that mass created at the beginning of day 1. God and the angels are in a totally different "dimension". ... ..
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: asygo]
#154997
08/13/13 08:02 PM
08/13/13 08:02 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Jesus said God is spirit. He didn't say anything about hidden dimensions. I use the term "dimension" because my vocabulary is VERY terribly limited in describing Divine things. Consider that "God said, Let there be light: and there was light." That is not the potential of any material in our physical universe. There is a term for it: SUPER-NATURAL. Does that term accurately describe who God is and what he does? I believe it hardly does. And parallel dimension is not the only way to be invisible. Human senses are severely limited. This is not a mere limitation on our part, but a stark and real difference to the extent that ONLY GOD CAN GIVE LIFE. .... ..
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: James Peterson]
#155000
08/13/13 09:14 PM
08/13/13 09:14 PM
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2 Cor. 12:2 I know a man in Christ fourteen years before (whether in the body, I do not know; or outside of the body, I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught up to the third Heaven. What is the third heaven that Paul is referring to in the above text?
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: Daryl]
#155031
08/14/13 09:52 AM
08/14/13 09:52 AM
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NON-SDA
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Posts: 1,195
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2 Cor. 12:2 I know a man in Christ fourteen years before (whether in the body, I do not know; or outside of the body, I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught up to the third Heaven. What is the third heaven that Paul is referring to in the above text? It helps to compare Paul's experience with that of John. Here is Paul's first. It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell:God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell:God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Notice how he describes it like an "out of body" experience, yet physically remaining on earth. It is much like a dream of visiting a distant place, even while lying in bed. The experience of travel is VERY REAL, though the dreamer is sleeping soundly on a VERY REAL bed. Here is John's experience. After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven:and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit:and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Both Paul and John don't go anywhere, but the angel of God sent to them, touches them in such a way that they begin to experience the vista the angel wishes them to see. We have the same ability though at a VERY primitive stage. We are drawn to the TV, and there on it's screen, we are shown things outside our present environment. Some even cry in front of the TV, shedding tears for what they see: even if it's just a cartoon. Poor Cinderella! "The third heaven" is our human way of saying, "the place of God, a place I really can't give an address for". It is what the ancient world conceived of as being "higher than the highest star". ... .
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: James Peterson]
#155034
08/14/13 11:10 AM
08/14/13 11:10 AM
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What about Enoch and Elijah who never experienced death, but were taken up to what Paul describes as the third heaven?
Also, what about those who were resurrected with Christ and also taken up to the third heaven?
What about Christ Himself who ascended in bodily form into the third heaven and has gone there to prepare a place for us there, as He says in John 14:1-3?
Sounds like a very real place to me.
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: James Peterson]
#155036
08/14/13 11:29 AM
08/14/13 11:29 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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When it is written, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth", it is speaking of the primordial dark mass of singularity that he would use to create heaven (and all things therein) and earth (and all things thereon).
EVERYTHING MATERIAL comes from that mass created at the beginning of day 1.
God and the angels are in a totally different "dimension".
...
.. 1) There was no mass created on Day 1. On that day, the following things were created and/or named: - Light
- Darkness (depending on one's interpretation)
- Day
- Night
2) The "Earth" was formed on Day 3, and the "Heaven" was made on Day 2. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: James Peterson]
#155044
08/14/13 01:59 PM
08/14/13 01:59 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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[quote=asygo]
If angels existed before Day 1, then it is obvious that other things were created before Day 1. Gen. 1 is about the creation of what has become a physical universe of black holes, exploding stars, barren wasteland and death and suffering. So why do you disagree that other things existed before Day 1? And what Bible verse places the limitation of Day 1 the way you do? Why not limit it to the Solar System? Why not limit it to the extent of unaided human vision? What verse gave you that idea? What Bible are you reading? I don't see all that in my book. Sigh! Didn't we discuss this already? When it is written, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth", it is speaking of the primordial dark mass of singularity that he would use to create heaven (and all things therein) and earth (and all things thereon). EVERYTHING MATERIAL comes from that mass created at the beginning of day 1. God and the angels are in a totally different "dimension". ... ..[/quote]
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: James Peterson]
#155045
08/14/13 02:03 PM
08/14/13 02:03 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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Jesus said God is spirit. He didn't say anything about hidden dimensions. I use the term "dimension" because my vocabulary is VERY terribly limited in describing Divine things. Consider that "God said, Let there be light: and there was light." That is not the potential of any material in our physical universe. There is a term for it: SUPER-NATURAL. Does that term accurately describe who God is and what he does? I believe it hardly does. And parallel dimension is not the only way to be invisible. Human senses are severely limited. This is not a mere limitation on our part, but a stark and real difference to the extent that ONLY GOD CAN GIVE LIFE. .... .. You got all that from "God is spirit"?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Deep Universe: Hubble's Universe Unfiltered
[Re: Daryl]
#155048
08/14/13 02:40 PM
08/14/13 02:40 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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What about Enoch and Elijah who never experienced death, but were taken up to what Paul describes as the third heaven?
Also, what about those who were resurrected with Christ and also taken up to the third heaven?
What about Christ Himself who ascended in bodily form into the third heaven and has gone there to prepare a place for us there, as He says in John 14:1-3?
Sounds like a very real place to me. Yes, that is true. God is real and so is heaven. However, theirs is a reality far removed from our periodic table of elements. They are not constrained by gravity, time, distance or temperature. Just by their word, our universe is bent into shape, stands straight, sent asunder, brought together, is healed or utterly taken away. Moses and Elijah were taken there. That is indisputable.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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