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Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: APL] #155046
08/14/13 02:18 PM
08/14/13 02:18 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
I agree, this is a waste of time. You just spent 4 paragraphs, and did not clear a thing. You have nicely laid out what you said, which is vague. You said sin does not cleanup after itself. This can be either after the death or before the death of the sinner. But taken with what you have said in the past, I think my paraphrase is still correct.

So you think you understand what I have said in the past better than I do. Are you paying attention to yourself? Does that even make any sense?

You have not repented of your fabricating of falsehoods. Instead, you are holding onto your pride like it was a lifeboat. While you do that, you refuse to hear anything. So, though it would be easy to answer your questions, I will not enetertain them, or you, or Satan.

Satan is using you as a club to batter his enemies. He is lying through you. He is accusing through you. I will no longer converse with him through you.

You think this is about theology, but it is really about slavery. I hope someone else can help you see your perilous condition. If kland has found favir in our eyes, maybe he can help. This is more important than doctrinal wrestling.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: asygo] #155054
08/14/13 05:03 PM
08/14/13 05:03 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
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Green, calling the Bible uninspired.

If that is not mocking God, I don't know what is.

Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: dedication] #155055
08/14/13 05:15 PM
08/14/13 05:15 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: APL

[Is the death of the sinner in the end, execution by God: Yes or No?
Is sin the direct cause of death of the sinner: Yes or No?
Is sin the direct cause of death of Christ: Yes or No?

#1. Yes, Rev. 20 fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.....And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

#2. Yes, God has supplied abundantly for the redemption of every human being to escape eternal death which is the sure end of sin. Clinging to sin is the cause why they find themselves in the devouring fire. Like Asygo said, "sin does not clean up after itself", God will clean up by sending fire down from heaven to burn up everything contaminated by sin, the whole earth and even the "heavens" around the earth, will be cleansed, and sin will be no more ever again.

a=b, c=b, therefore a=c

So we have:
God executes the sinner.
Sin is the direct cause of the death of the sinner.

Therefore, we shall conclude: God is sin.

Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: asygo] #155058
08/14/13 05:34 PM
08/14/13 05:34 PM
APL  Offline OP
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
I agree, this is a waste of time. You just spent 4 paragraphs, and did not clear a thing. You have nicely laid out what you said, which is vague. You said sin does not cleanup after itself. This can be either after the death or before the death of the sinner. But taken with what you have said in the past, I think my paraphrase is still correct.

So you think you understand what I have said in the past better than I do. Are you paying attention to yourself? Does that even make any sense?

You have not repented of your fabricating of falsehoods. Instead, you are holding onto your pride like it was a lifeboat. While you do that, you refuse to hear anything. So, though it would be easy to answer your questions, I will not enetertain them, or you, or Satan.

Satan is using you as a club to batter his enemies. He is lying through you. He is accusing through you. I will no longer converse with him through you.

You think this is about theology, but it is really about slavery. I hope someone else can help you see your perilous condition. If kland has found favir in our eyes, maybe he can help. This is more important than doctrinal wrestling.
Is it not interesting that Satan accused God of his own characteristics? You now provide another reply without clarification. Can you state your position clearly? Does God execute the sinner? A simple answer, yes or no will suffice.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: APL] #155093
08/15/13 07:53 PM
08/15/13 07:53 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
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A 1578 handbook for inquisitors spelled out the purpose of inquisitorial penalties: . . . quoniam punitio non refertur primo & per se in correctionem & bonum eius qui punitur, sed in bonum publicum ut alij terreantur, & a malis committendis avocentur. [Translation from the Latin: ". . . for punishment does not take place primarily and per se for the correction and good of the person punished, but for the public good in order that others may become terrified and weaned away from the evils they would commit. "][6]

Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: kland] #155099
08/16/13 03:32 AM
08/16/13 03:32 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Green, calling the Bible uninspired.

If that is not mocking God, I don't know what is.

What inspires men to call upon themselves the seven last plagues by changing God's Word? Have you read the last verses of the book lately? And who has mocked God by directly defying those verses?

I refuse to call "inspired" that which was done in direct opposition to God's will. Please help me see why you feel this is an inappropriate position--if you believe it is.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: APL] #155174
08/18/13 08:23 PM
08/18/13 08:23 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Quote:
Everything, EVERYTHING, we need to know or indeed can know about God, has been revealed by Christ's life on this planet.
Originally Posted By: EGW
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1}

Does anyone else see the concept that was added to the SOP quote?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: asygo] #155186
08/19/13 04:18 AM
08/19/13 04:18 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Let me quote more:
Originally Posted By: EGW
Christ's Revelation of God

All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1}

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." John 1:18. {8T 286.2}

Taking humanity upon Him, Christ came to be one with humanity and at the same time to reveal our heavenly Father to sinful human beings. He was in all things made like unto His brethren. He became flesh, even as we are. He was hungry and thirsty and weary. He was sustained by food and refreshed by sleep. He shared the lot of men, and yet He was the blameless Son of God. He was a stranger and sojourner on the earth--in the world, but not of the world; tempted and tried as men and women today are tempted and tried, yet living a life free from sin. {8T 286.3}

Tender, compassionate, sympathetic, ever considerate of others, He represented the character of God, and was constantly engaged in service for God and man. {8T 286.4}

"The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . . full of grace and truth." Verse 14. {8T 286.5}

"Unto the men whom Thou gavest Me out of the world,'' He said, "I manifested Thy name," "that the love wherewith Thou hast loved Me may be in them." John 17:6, A. R. V., 26. {8T 286.6}

"Love your enemies," He bade them; "bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven;" "for He is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." "He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." Matthew 5:44-45; Luke 6:35-36. {8T 286.7}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: Green Cochoa] #155206
08/19/13 01:48 PM
08/19/13 01:48 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
I refuse to call "inspired" that which was done in direct opposition to God's will. Please help me see why you feel this is an inappropriate position--if you believe it is.
Green, the Bible is not in direct opposition to God's will. Kind of reminds me of, God is not the destroyer because he is the destroyer.

Re: What is the Wrath of God? [Re: asygo] #155207
08/19/13 01:52 PM
08/19/13 01:52 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: asygo
Quote:
Everything, EVERYTHING, we need to know or indeed can know about God, has been revealed by Christ's life on this planet.
Originally Posted By: EGW
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1}

Does anyone else see the concept that was added to the SOP quote?
You're going to have to help me here. In what way does "everything that man needs to know" include more or less or means something different than "all that man needs to know"?

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