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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: Rosangela] #154925
08/12/13 05:59 PM
08/12/13 05:59 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
As to "the blood of goats and calves," in view of the fact that the expression is repeated in v. 19, referring to the inauguration of the sanctuary, the most probable hypothesis is that in v. 12 the reference is also to this fact.


You ought to consider the context of the Heb. 9:12

Originally Posted By: Heb. 9:6-12

"Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always INTO THE FIRST tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. BUT INTO THE SECOND went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: ...

... Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

But Christ being come an HIGH PRIEST of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in ONCE into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."


It is obvious that Calvary was the sacrifice of the Day of Atonement; and the ascension of Christ -- his entry into THE MOST HOLY PLACE. As it is written, "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" (Isaiah 66:1)

...
..

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: James Peterson] #154941
08/13/13 04:03 AM
08/13/13 04:03 AM
dedication  Online Content
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The blood shed upon Calvary was all sufficient for ALL the fulfillment of the types: The daily and the yearly.

All the types (daily and yearly) were not sufficient to take away sin for the blood of bulls and sheep can't do it. They were just "shadow" ordinances pointing forward to the real thing.

But Christ
"by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place" (plural) meaning the heavenly sanctuary.



9:1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

This is talking about the WHOLE of the services in both daily and yearly. As long as people still looked to it as the place for salvation, they miss out on the real source of salvation.

The new covenant has the better blood, better Eternal Priest, and better heavenly sanctuary, and the ministry therein is perfectly capable of dealing with sin and cleansing the repentant sinner.

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: James Peterson] #154942
08/13/13 04:37 AM
08/13/13 04:37 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson


They each speak of the High Priest entering the sanctuary with blood. If you stop just for a moment to consider the typical service, you would realize that it does not matter at all whether the word used in Heb. 9:12 were 'ta hagia' OR 'hagia haggiwin'.

In the typical service, the High Priest enters ONCE at the end of the year into THE MOST HOLY PLACE, beyond the second veil. And that is it.
..


The anointed Priest enters the Holy Place during the year as well, with the blood of bullocks and goats.

See Lev. 4:3-6
Lev. 4:13-18
Both these passages outline the blood of a bullock being carried into the holy place by the anointed priest.


And so Jesus, having completed the "outercourt" sacrifice while on earth (at the cross) entered ONCE into the heavenly sanctuary to commence the WHOLE work.
The earthly sanctuary work was cyclic, just going round and round without really accomplishing its objective.

But Christ's ministry is linear. He enters once into the holy place and continues fulfilling all the shadows.

God's throne by the way, is not stationary, there are numerous passages that show God's thrown has fiery wheels.

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: dedication] #154948
08/13/13 05:47 AM
08/13/13 05:47 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: James Peterson


They each speak of the High Priest entering the sanctuary with blood. If you stop just for a moment to consider the typical service, you would realize that it does not matter at all whether the word used in Heb. 9:12 were 'ta hagia' OR 'hagia haggiwin'.

In the typical service, the High Priest enters ONCE at the end of the year into THE MOST HOLY PLACE, beyond the second veil. And that is it.
..


The anointed Priest enters the Holy Place during the year as well, with the blood of bullocks and goats.

See Lev. 4:3-6
Lev. 4:13-18
Both these passages outline the blood of a bullock being carried into the holy place by the anointed priest.


And so Jesus, having completed the "outercourt" sacrifice while on earth (at the cross) entered ONCE into the heavenly sanctuary to commence the WHOLE work.
The earthly sanctuary work was cyclic, just going round and round without really accomplishing its objective.

But Christ's ministry is linear. He enters once into the holy place and continues fulfilling all the shadows.

God's throne by the way, is not stationary, there are numerous passages that show God's thrown has fiery wheels.
Amen dedication.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: dedication] #154959
08/13/13 02:57 PM
08/13/13 02:57 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
The anointed Priest enters the Holy Place during the year as well, with the blood of bullocks and goats.

See Lev. 4:3-6
Lev. 4:13-18
Both these passages outline the blood of a bullock being carried into the holy place by the anointed priest.
I think James was emphasizing the MOST holy place. Your texts don't mention anything past the veil.

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: James Peterson] #154966
08/13/13 03:24 PM
08/13/13 03:24 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Quote:
It is obvious that Calvary was the sacrifice of the Day of Atonement

It is obvious that Calvary was the antitype of all the sacrifices. But there is a distinction between the sacrifice and the presentation of the blood.

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: kland] #154969
08/13/13 03:46 PM
08/13/13 03:46 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
I think James was emphasizing the MOST holy place. Your texts don't mention anything past the veil.


Thank you, kland.

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: Rosangela] #154970
08/13/13 03:48 PM
08/13/13 03:48 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Western, USA
Quote:
It is obvious that Calvary was the sacrifice of the Day of Atonement
Calvary was the PASSOVER sacrifice. 1 Corinthians 5:7 Clean out the old yeast so that you may be a new batch, as you really are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: kland] #154973
08/13/13 04:12 PM
08/13/13 04:12 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: dedication
The anointed Priest enters the Holy Place during the year as well, with the blood of bullocks and goats.

See Lev. 4:3-6
Lev. 4:13-18
Both these passages outline the blood of a bullock being carried into the holy place by the anointed priest.
I think James was emphasizing the MOST holy place. Your texts don't mention anything past the veil.


I realize James was talking about the Most Holy Place, and seemed to be limiting things to that to the exclusion of the Holy Place. That is why I showed texts that the Priest also entered into the Holy Place with blood during the daily.

It does make a difference how the translators translate the passage -- as the Christian world in general thinks Christ entered the Most Holy and any reference to a two phase heavenly sanctuary ministry is tossed out with a sneer.

Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'. [Re: dedication] #154975
08/13/13 04:42 PM
08/13/13 04:42 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
The blood shed upon Calvary was all sufficient for ALL the fulfillment of the types: The daily and the yearly.

All the types (daily and yearly) were not sufficient to take away sin for the blood of bulls and sheep can't do it. They were just "shadow" ordinances pointing forward to the real thing.

But Christ
"by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place" (plural) meaning the heavenly sanctuary.



9:1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

This is talking about the WHOLE of the services in both daily and yearly. As long as people still looked to it as the place for salvation, they miss out on the real source of salvation.

The new covenant has the better blood, better Eternal Priest, and better heavenly sanctuary, and the ministry therein is perfectly capable of dealing with sin and cleansing the repentant sinner.


This thread is about "from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'", how the NIV is, as it is supposed, attempting to negate the doctrine of an investigative judgement since 1844, as formulated by SDA.

It centers on the question of where did Jesus Christ go upon ascension:

1. to begin ministering as PRIEST in "the holy place of a sanctuary in heaven until 1844 whereupon he steps into the most holy place as HIGH PRIEST of that sanctuary" as SDA claim; OR

2. as the book of Hebrews asserts, that he offered the sacrifice on earth and ascended into heaven (aka THE MOST HOLY PLACE), ALL IN HIGH PRIESTLY MINISTRY.

-------

"Paul", in the book of Hebrews, is CLEARLY speaking of Jesus Christ as HIGH PRIEST. The first time he mentions anything about the priesthood in relation to Christ, he says:

Originally Posted By: Heb. 2:17
"Wherefore in all things it behoved [Jesus Christ] to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful HIGH PRIEST in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people"


THEN, he begins in chapter three:

Originally Posted By: Heb. 3:1
"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and HIGH PRIEST of our confession, Christ Jesus."


There are 26 verses in the book where the word PRIEST occurs, and in every one where it is spoken of in relation to Jesus Christ, it is ALWAYS OF A HIGH PRIESTLY MINISTRY.

Even in 5:6, "As he saith also in another place, Thou art A PRIEST for ever after the order of Melchisedec", that priesthood is an HIGH PRIESTLY MINISTRY. See 5:10, just four verses down, it says, "[Jesus Christ] called of God an HIGH PRIEST after the order of Melchisedec."

Space does not permit a thorough treatment of the subject, but "Paul" was saying that the DAY OF ATONEMENT was fulfilled in Calvary. You may speak of this sacrifice or that sacrifice, of the Passover sacrifice, etc., etc. .... as being fulfilled as well; but, as "Paul" shows, THE LEVITICAL DAY OF ATONEMENT was fulfilled in the public ministry, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. The sacrifice was made, the sin of the world was taken away, one who was pure, holy and undefiled as pre-fallen Adam was found.

The book of Hebrews answers the question: when was the Day of Atonement fulfilled? According to "Paul", it was fulfilled in the story of Christ from incarnation to ascension.

...
..

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