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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: James Peterson]
#154976
08/13/13 05:11 PM
08/13/13 05:11 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,648
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There can be no "day of atonement" without first having the daily presentation of the blood to cover the confessed sins of God's people. I realize people have taken the words "first" and "second" in Hebrews 9:6-12 to try and make the earthly Holy Place (the first) represent itself --the earthly sanctuary, and the earthly Most Holy Place (the second) represent the heavenly sanctuary. But that is not correct, the WHOLE (holy and most holy) earthly sanctuary, is a shadow of the heavenly sanctuary where Christ is ministering. The WHOLE earthly sanctuary ENDED when Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary. The whole shadowy earthly sanctuary needed to end and the focus of the people be directed to the reality of Christ's ministry in heaven. Each part of the earthly sanctuary was a type of Christ's work. 1. The courtyard typified His work on earth (the sacrifice) 2. The Holy Place typifies His work of covering our sins with His blood. Forgiveness and sanctification. The "presentation of His blood" is the covering of sins. His BLOOD is sufficient to cover all sins that sent to Him to be covered by confession. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Romans 4:7-8 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 3. The Most Holy Place typifies His final work of judgement and blotting out of sins. Daniel 7:9-10,13-14 I beheld till the thrones were set, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 13 and, behold, like the Son of man came (who looked like a human Being) with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Rev. 3:5-4 (And Jesus promised) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels...and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Daniel 7:22 and judgment was given for the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Of course the Christian world in general scoffs at this for they believe everyone is judged and rewarded at death and go directly to heaven or hell -- this false concept distorts everything -- not only casting contempt upon the sanctuary doctrine but recasts and rewrites the whole end time message.
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: James Peterson]
#154977
08/13/13 05:13 PM
08/13/13 05:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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James, The priests were just assistants of the high priest, and what they did was considered as having been done by him. Please read Heb. 7:27: Heb 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. Space does not permit a thorough treatment of the subject, but "Paul" was saying that the DAY OF ATONEMENT was fulfilled in Calvary. As I said, the sacrifice of the day of atonement was fulfilled in Calvary. But when was the blood symbolically presented at the heavenly sanctuary?
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: dedication]
#154978
08/13/13 05:16 PM
08/13/13 05:16 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,648
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Christ is our ONLY priest. Thus all the work typified by earthly priests, finds its reality in our High Priest, Jesus Christ.
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: dedication]
#154993
08/13/13 07:49 PM
08/13/13 07:49 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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There can be no "day of atonement" without first having the daily presentation of the blood to cover the confessed sins of God's people. I realize people have taken the words "first" and "second" in Hebrews 9:6-12 to try and make the earthly Holy Place (the first) represent itself --the earthly sanctuary, and the earthly Most Holy Place (the second) represent the heavenly sanctuary. But that is not correct, the WHOLE (holy and most holy) earthly sanctuary, is a shadow of the heavenly sanctuary where Christ is ministering. The WHOLE earthly sanctuary ENDED when Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary. The whole shadowy earthly sanctuary needed to end and the focus of the people be directed to the reality of Christ's ministry in heaven. Each part of the earthly sanctuary was a type of Christ's work. 1. The courtyard typified His work on earth (the sacrifice) 2. The Holy Place typifies His work of covering our sins with His blood. Forgiveness and sanctification. The "presentation of His blood" is the covering of sins. His BLOOD is sufficient to cover all sins that sent to Him to be covered by confession. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Romans 4:7-8 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 3. The Most Holy Place typifies His final work of judgement and blotting out of sins. Daniel 7:9-10,13-14 I beheld till the thrones were set, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 13 and, behold, like the Son of man came (who looked like a human Being) with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Rev. 3:5-4 (And Jesus promised) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels...and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Daniel 7:22 and judgment was given for the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Of course the Christian world in general scoffs at this for they believe everyone is judged and rewarded at death and go directly to heaven or hell -- this false concept distorts everything -- not only casting contempt upon the sanctuary doctrine but recasts and rewrites the whole end time message. ??? We're just talking over each other's head and not replying to anything each other has said. That is an UNHEALTHY conversation.
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: Rosangela]
#154994
08/13/13 08:02 PM
08/13/13 08:02 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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James, The priests were just assistants of the high priest, and what they did was considered as having been done by him. Please read Heb. 7:27:
Heb 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. The ONLY time the HIGH PRIEST offers sacrifices "first for his own sins and then for those of the people" was on THE DAY OF ATONEMENT, once towards the end of the year. The word daily which you highlighted really means, regularly, continually. "Paul" was making the point that, if they were doing it year after year, then what value was that "atonement". No, but those things merely prefigured Christ and the sacrifice he made principally on Calvary. Only HE offers true and everlasting atonement. As I said, the sacrifice of the day of atonement was fulfilled in Calvary. But when was the blood symbolically presented at the heavenly sanctuary? On the Day of Atonement. It is written, "And [God asked of Cain concerning Abel], What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground." ... ..
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: dedication]
#154995
08/13/13 08:07 PM
08/13/13 08:07 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Christ is our ONLY priest. Thus all the work typified by earthly priests, finds its reality in our High Priest, Jesus Christ. And the evidence for this is .... ?
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: James Peterson]
#154998
08/13/13 09:24 PM
08/13/13 09:24 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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James, When did kata hemera cease to mean "every day" and started to mean "regularly"? The ONLY time the HIGH PRIEST offers sacrifices "first for his own sins and then for those of the people" was on THE DAY OF ATONEMENT Who said that? For the priest to minister in favor of the people, he himself must first have his sins forgiven. This showed the sinfulness of the human priesthood. Paul says this clearly in this passage. As I said, the sacrifice of the day of atonement was fulfilled in Calvary. But when was the blood symbolically presented at the heavenly sanctuary? On the Day of Atonement. It is written, "And [God asked of Cain concerning Abel], What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground." This is absurd for two reasons: 1) the sacrifice was made in the court and the blood taken into the most holy place. The earth cannot be at the same time the court and the most holy place; and 2) in this case the Day of Atonement would have been fulfilled before Pentecost, going against the order of the feasts.
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: James Peterson]
#155001
08/13/13 10:49 PM
08/13/13 10:49 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,648
Canada
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There can be no "day of atonement" without first having the daily presentation of the blood to cover the confessed sins of God's people. I realize people have taken the words "first" and "second" in Hebrews 9:6-12 to try and make the earthly Holy Place (the first) represent itself --the earthly sanctuary, and the earthly Most Holy Place (the second) represent the heavenly sanctuary. But that is not correct, the WHOLE (holy and most holy) earthly sanctuary, is a shadow of the heavenly sanctuary where Christ is ministering. The WHOLE earthly sanctuary ENDED when Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary. The whole shadowy earthly sanctuary needed to end and the focus of the people be directed to the reality of Christ's ministry in heaven. Each part of the earthly sanctuary was a type of Christ's work. 1. The courtyard typified His work on earth (the sacrifice) 2. The Holy Place typifies His work of covering our sins with His blood. Forgiveness and sanctification. The "presentation of His blood" is the covering of sins. His BLOOD is sufficient to cover all sins that sent to Him to be covered by confession. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Romans 4:7-8 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 3. The Most Holy Place typifies His final work of judgement and blotting out of sins. Daniel 7:9-10,13-14 I beheld till the thrones were set, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 13 and, behold, like the Son of man came (who looked like a human Being) with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Rev. 3:5-4 (And Jesus promised) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels...and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Daniel 7:22 and judgment was given for the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Of course the Christian world in general scoffs at this for they believe everyone is judged and rewarded at death and go directly to heaven or hell -- this false concept distorts everything -- not only casting contempt upon the sanctuary doctrine but recasts and rewrites the whole end time message. ??? We're just talking over each other's head and not replying to anything each other has said. That is an UNHEALTHY conversation. Why would you say that? Aren't you skipping Christ's work in the Holy Place and trying to say Christ went straight into the Most Holy Place? I was just outlining the whole picture -- Christ goes first into the Holy Place performing the daily functions of the priest in that apartment and much later goes into the Most Holy Place to complete His work there in the years just prior to His second coming, not at His ascension. Why would you think that "unhealthy" to the subject? And why would you question the fact that Christ is the ONLY Priest in the heavenly sanctuary, thus all the earthly types find their fulfilment in Him. 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: James Peterson]
#155002
08/13/13 11:05 PM
08/13/13 11:05 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,648
Canada
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Heb 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. The ONLY time the HIGH PRIEST offers sacrifices "first for his own sins and then for those of the people" was on THE DAY OF ATONEMENT, once towards the end of the year. The word daily which you highlighted really means, regularly, continually. "Paul" was making the point that, if they were doing it year after year, then what value was that "atonement". No, but those things merely prefigured Christ and the sacrifice he made principally on Calvary. Only HE offers true and everlasting atonement. .. Actually, I already quoted texts where the anointed Priest offered the blood of a bullock for his own sins and for the sins of the whole congregation. And it was NOT on the day of atonement but part of the "daily" ministrations. Lev. 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he has sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. 4:4 and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD. 4:5 And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation: 4:6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the veil of the sanctuary.
4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin ...(14)then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin,.. (16) And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation: (17) And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the veil. Before the day of atonement, the confessed sins of the people and confessed sins of the earthly priests had to be brought into the sanctuary and covered by the blood. This was done in the above verses, it was also done by the priests eating the sacrificial flesh and bringing it into the sanctuary that way. Then on the day of atonement, the sanctuary was cleansed of the transgressions of the people.
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Re: NIV changes, from 'ta hagia' to 'hagia haggiwn'.
[Re: dedication]
#155004
08/13/13 11:58 PM
08/13/13 11:58 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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The anointed Priest enters the Holy Place during the year as well, with the blood of bullocks and goats.
See Lev. 4:3-6 Lev. 4:13-18 Both these passages outline the blood of a bullock being carried into the holy place by the anointed priest.
******* ADMIN EDIT *******Lev. 4 is about the sin offering during the year for: 1. the priest that is anointed (a young bullock) 2. the whole congregation of Israel (a young bullock) 3. a ruler (a male kid of the goats) 4. any one of the common people (a female kid of the goats/sheep) BUT on the Day of Atonement, which the book of Hebrews is about, it is written: "But into the [SECOND tabernacle] went the high priest ALONE ONCE A YEAR, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people." What do you believe, "dedication"; that you're going to perform a sleigh of hand with the word of God and expect people to believe you? Come, come, now! Speak the truth honestly and it will go well with you. ... ..
Last edited by Daryl; 08/22/13 08:06 PM. Reason: Admin Edit Done.
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