|
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,198
Members1,325
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
5 registered members (Karen Y, dedication, Kevin H, 2 invisible),
2,759
guests, and 7
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155294
08/22/13 04:06 AM
08/22/13 04:06 AM
|
OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
Now, if I choose to limit my thinking to a narrow window of time, by putting blinders upon my own face, how intelligent is that?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! Truth came forth from the lips of Jesus, uncorrupted with human philosophy. His words were from heaven, such as mortal lips had never spoken nor mortal ears ever heard. His heart was an altar on which burned the flames of infinite love. Goodness, mercy, and love were enthroned in the breast of the Son of God. He set up his tabernacle in the midst of our human encampment, pitched his tent by the side of the tents of men, that he might dwell among them and make them familiar with his divine character and love. No one could love Christ and pay homage to him without serving and honoring the infinite God. Those who had an appreciation of the character and mission of Christ, were filled with reverence and awe, as they looked upon him and felt that they were looking upon the temple of the living God. Officers were sent to take the Son of God, that the temple in which God was enshrined might be destroyed. But as they drew near and heard the words of divine wisdom that fell from his lips, they were charmed, and the power and excellence of his instruction so filled their hearts and minds that they forgot the purpose for which they had been sent. Christ revealed himself to their souls. Divinity flashed through humanity, and they returned so filled with this one thought, so charmed with the ideas he had presented, that when the leaders of Israel inquired, "Why have ye not brought him?" they replied, "Never man spake like this man." They had seen that which priests and rulers would not see,--humanity flooded with the light and glory of divinity. Those who would behold this glory would be drawn to love Jesus and to love the Father whom he represented. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. In Christ was arrayed before men the paternal grace and the matchless perfections of the Father. In his prayer just before his crucifixion, he declared, "I have manifested thy name." "I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." When the object of his mission was attained,--the revelation of God to the world,--the Son of God announced that his work was accomplished, and that the character of the Father was made manifest to men. {ST, January 20, 1890 par. 9}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#155295
08/22/13 08:28 AM
08/22/13 08:28 AM
|
SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
|
|
What is the definition of the final word in the book The Great Controversy?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Johann]
#155299
08/22/13 10:16 AM
08/22/13 10:16 AM
|
SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1} Point to Ponder APL says the above quote applies only to Jesus' earthly existence. APL says it does not apply to Jesus' prior life, nor to His after life. APL seems not to acknowledge Jesus' "character" as having been revealed outside of said earthly existence. APL, what is the Old Testament for? Ellen White seems to teach you that you can't learn anything from it, right? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155301
08/22/13 11:21 AM
08/22/13 11:21 AM
|
SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
|
|
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1} Point to Ponder APL says the above quote applies only to Jesus' earthly existence. APL says it does not apply to Jesus' prior life, nor to His after life. APL seems not to acknowledge Jesus' "character" as having been revealed outside of said earthly existence. APL, what is the Old Testament for? Ellen White seems to teach you that you can't learn anything from it, right? Blessings, Green Cochoa. Have you pondered on these points yourself?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Johann]
#155306
08/22/13 12:39 PM
08/22/13 12:39 PM
|
OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
APL, what is the Old Testament for? Ellen White seems to teach you that you can't learn anything from it, right? There is must to be learned in the Old Testament, especially when read though the lens of Jesus Christ. Christ came to save fallen man, and Satan with fiercest wrath met him on the field of conflict; for the enemy knew that when divine strength was added to human weakness, man was armed with power and intelligence, and could break away from the captivity in which he had bound him. Satan sought to intercept every ray of light from the throne of God. He sought to cast his shadow across the earth, that men might lose the true views of God's character, and that the knowledge of God might become extinct in the earth. He had caused truth of vital importance to be so mingled with error that it had lost its significance. The law of Jehovah was burdened with needless exactions and traditions, and God was represented as severe, exacting, revengeful, and arbitrary. He was pictured as one who could take pleasure in the sufferings of his creatures. The very attributes that belonged to the character of Satan, the evil one represented as belonging to the character of God. Jesus came to teach men of the Father, to correctly represent him before the fallen children of earth. Angels could not fully portray the character of God, but Christ, who was a living impersonation of God, could not fail to accomplish the work. The only way in which he could set and keep men right was to make himself visible and familiar to their eyes. That men might have salvation he came directly to man, and became a partaker of his nature. {ST, January 20, 1890 par. 6} Yes - the life and character of God was clearly revealed by the life Jesus lived on this earth. His life on this planet gives clearest picture of God and destroys Satan's lies about God. Satan's pictured God has having his own attributes, such as, God is the Destroyer. God is a severe, exacting judge. Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#155312
08/22/13 02:51 PM
08/22/13 02:51 PM
|
OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
green and asygo believe that only a little of the truth about God is revealed by Christ life on this planet. Arnold summarizes it like this: So it seems GC might be on to something there. Perhaps there is much to learn about God in the law and the prophets. Maybe the blessings and curses recorded by Moses are not extraneous. Perhaps the short record of Christ's life on this planet doesn't come close to what we can learn of His life and character. But what say the scriptures? John 3:10-2110 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things?11 Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you receive not our witness.12 If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
Jesus is the Light of the world. Christ is to be lifted up. Christ's life has manifested the character (name) of the Father. Is the short record of Christ's life sufficient to understand the character of God? YES. And here is lies the difference between my view of God and green/asygo/others. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: John 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?
Jesus is exactly like the Father. THAT is the GOSPEL - the Good News. If what you say is NOT Good News, then it is NOT the GOSPEL. This IS what is being spoken about at the beginning of the 3 angel's messages. Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the middle of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,. Are we preaching the 3 angel's messages today?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#155313
08/22/13 03:02 PM
08/22/13 03:02 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
|
|
|
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#155315
08/22/13 03:14 PM
08/22/13 03:14 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
green and asygo believe that only a little of the truth about God is revealed by Christ life on this planet. Arnold summarizes it like this: So it seems GC might be on to something there. Perhaps there is much to learn about God in the law and the prophets. Maybe the blessings and curses recorded by Moses are not extraneous. Perhaps the short record of Christ's life on this planet doesn't come close to what we can learn of His life and character. But what say the scriptures? John 3:10-2110 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things?11 Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you receive not our witness.12 If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
Jesus is the Light of the world. Christ is to be lifted up. Christ's life has manifested the character (name) of the Father. Is the short record of Christ's life sufficient to understand the character of God? YES. And here is lies the difference between my view of God and green/asygo/others. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: John 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?
Jesus is exactly like the Father. THAT is the GOSPEL - the Good News. If what you say is NOT Good News, then it is NOT the GOSPEL. This IS what is being spoken about at the beginning of the 3 angel's messages. Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the middle of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,. Are we preaching the 3 angel's messages today?  Thank you, APL, for speaking the point so well that Arnold and I have been trying to get across. The point was in the first verse there that you quoted. Jesus answered and said to him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things? Let's see, now. 1) Did Nicodemus have the New Testament to read? 2) Had Jesus' life on this earth, or even His ministry, been completed? 3) Had Nicodemus met Jesus before? From whence, then, was Nicodemus' knowledge to have come? You mean to tell me that he should have known about Jesus from the Old Testament? You had been trying to prove we could only know about God from Jesus' earthly life. I'm glad to see you are beginning to recognize otherwise. You also must have recognized some truths in the Hebrews text you quoted, namely the following portion: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, ... Or did you really think that since "all we can know" came through Christ's life, God would have wasted His words on the people before Christ came--since they could not have known anything by them anyhow? Nay. On the contrary, God knew they could know Him, even before Jesus' life among them. In fact, the wisest man on earth could even know God, before Jesus ever came to show God to him. And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155317
08/22/13 03:56 PM
08/22/13 03:56 PM
|
OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
1) Did Nicodemus have the New Testament to read?
2) Had Jesus' life on this earth, or even His ministry, been completed?
3) Had Nicodemus met Jesus before? Jesus said: John 3:10 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things? If the testimony was so clear, Why? Why did Jesus have to come if the testimony was so apparent? To pay a legal payment? NO. You [green] quote Hebrews, but you stop short of what the writer wanted to really say, WHY? Yes, Jesus has spoken to the prophets in the past. BUT- the CLEAREST revelation of what God is like is found in His life on earth as a man. And if you beliefs contradict that testimony, then you are believing a lie. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, WHY do you so ignore Jesus's testimony? The BIBILCAL definition of a believer is given to use in John 3. A believer is one who believes Jesus personal testimony. It is an inconvient truth when one's beliefs do not align with the testimony of Jesus. Jesus IS the answer to the question, what is God like. Luke 9:33-35 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for you, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said. 34 While he thus spoke, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. 35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.John 1:10-1710 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came to his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spoke, He that comes after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
TRUTH - came by Jesus Christ
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#155326
08/22/13 08:31 PM
08/22/13 08:31 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
|
|
Yes, TRUTH came by Jesus Christ.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
