I've never seen "age of accountability" in the Bible or SOP. Does anyone know of a text? Otherwise, I don't think we should be basing anything on such a concept.

While looking for a thread I came across this inactive one and decided to respond to it.

What is the origin of this "age of accountability" concept?

IIRC, it was Willie White who brought that up. But I don't consider him inspired.

We are all born carnal.
That is -- our natures naturally are selfish and sinful.

Scripture says we must be born again.
John 3:3 Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Without the cross -- the whole human race was lost with absolutely no hope.
With the cross -- that barrier was removed, and now everyone who comes to Christ and accepts Him as Lord and Savior will be saved.

It's like the world was plunged into a black hole with no way out, but Christ opened a glorious door and reached down so everyone Who grasps His hand can be pulled out of darkness into His light.

Hm - how is it we are BORN carnal? Must be in the DNA... Has to be in the DNA.

Now we are again touching something basic in the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church who owe so much to Aurelius Augustinus of Hippo that no theological treatise was accepted during the Middle Ages unless 75% of it was based on Augustine. And Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk. Some of his teachings might even have entered into Adventism thinking. . .

Augustine was not a Christian when he became professor at the University of Milan 384 AD. While there his mother, St. Monica, and St. Ambrosius, influenced him to convert. In the Church he found some things which lacked a theological basis, so he went ahead to make one which was accepted by the Church. It was needed to accept

1. Infant baptism

2. Monasticism

3. Celibate male priesthood

So Augustine wrote and proposed the doctrine of Original Sin, basing it on Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

From this text he concluded that the sexual act is the sin itself.

Therefore there was no other method by which a child could be saved than to be baptized as soon as possible after birth, in case it should die. That infant baptism is what is needed for salvation, but in order to remain sinless the person had to keep him/herself away from sex for the rest of his/her life. This became the theology of monasticism, the reason why men and women should separate and live in monasteries where they also could do good work to themselves(prayer and meditation) and to others.

And this was also the theology/doctrine of the celibate male only priesthood. The priest must not be a sinner so he could forgive the sins of others. It seems evident it had to be a male who had conquered the real sin of mankind.

In one of his sermons, of which we still have the notes, he said:

- You men, sin is right there between your legs.

In one of his treaties Augustine admits that a relationship between male and female is essential for the continuance of mankind. He admonished people to have as little enjoyment as possible from the act itself to make it less sinful. The good works of the monks, nuns and priests will then be transferred to the sinner that they might still be saved.

This is the original doctrine of Original Sin. How much of this do you regard as Biblical? How much of this has been adopted into the thinking of Adventism? Understanding the Bible?

- - -

You will find many of the links to this in the standard biography by Peter Brown: Augustine of Hippo. Also in Augustine's Autobiography. In English there is a two volume set of Basic Writings of Saint Augustine, published by Bake Book House. Here is also his autobiography. I have also see in a university library a selection of Augustine's sermons.

In the preface of Basic Writings we are reminded that Augustine is the most important figure to understand if we want to understand the Western civilization in which we live, and the fusion of the Hebraic and Christian with the Greek and the Roman.
This is where we live and breathe and we cannot avoid being influenced by it.

What influence has this had on certain eras in our recent history?

How many of us are influence by this thinking - even through a good Adventist friend - when we read our Bibles(even if you say you are only following the Bible)?

"All have sinned." Including infants. We choose to be saved.

How has an infant sinned the moment it comes out of the mother?

Johann,

That's a faithless question, because the Bible says "all have sinned." Either you don't believe the Bible, or you don't believe that babies are people. It's one or the other.

In other words, whether we like to think ourselves capable of understanding all the reasons for "how," "why," or "wherefore," the Bible is a superior guide and support to human reasoning. I have presented here on this forum some of the "how," but perhaps not all like to accept it at true.

If you hear people complaining all the time about things, do you find yourself tending to resonate with their view? Now, consider that the newborn has been "resonating" with its mother for many months--is that mother perfect? Hardly. And the baby has picked up on the mother's habits.

One point that must be made clear: it is possible to sin without knowing it. If one is ignorant of the law of God, the law is still the law. Sin is transgression of the law, NOT "willful, knowing transgression of the law." We might all agree that the baby does not realize his or her own sinfulness. He or she may not have willfully sinned, and likely has little to no knowledge of the law of God at birth. Such ignorance does not mean it cannot have transgressed the law.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

What is "carnal?" If you are meaning "flesh," then of course it has to do with DNA. This definition of "carnal" would mean we will still be carnal even if we are not sinning. It would mean Jesus was also "carnal."

If, however, you define "carnal" as being "fleshly-minded" as opposed to "spiritual," then we find that the definition has to do with the thinking, and as such, has little or nothing to do with DNA. No matter what DNA we have been given, we have the gift of free choice and can choose to be spiritual or choose to be sinful.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.