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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155268
08/21/13 03:29 PM
08/21/13 03:29 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Group: Admin Team
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
Quote:
It was through the power of the Holy Spirit that during the Dark Ages the Waldensian Christians helped to prepare the way for the Reformation. It was the same power that made successful the efforts of the noble men and women who pioneered the way for the establishment of modern missions and for the translation of the Bible into the languages and dialects of all nations and peoples. {AA 53.1}



Quote:
Others arose from century to century to echo this protest. And those early teachers who, traversing different lands and known by various names, bore the character of the Vaudois missionaries, and spread everywhere the knowledge of the gospel, penetrated to the Netherlands. Their doctrines spread rapidly. The Waldensian Bible they translated in verse into the Dutch language. They declared “that there was great advantage in it; no jests, no fables, no trifles, no deceits, but the words of truth; that indeed there was here and there a hard crust, but that the marrow and sweetness of what was good and holy might be easily discovered in it.”—Ibid. 1:14. Thus wrote the friends of the ancient faith, in the twelfth century. {GC 238.1}


The Waldensian Bible was translated into many different languages, not only the King James Version in English.

If Ellen White stated that they only used the Textus Receptus, then I missed it. Where was that?
Come on, the many manuscripts attest to the accuracy of the Majority Text/Textus Receptus you know that is what Ellen White was referring to, as I have already shown the connection to the Waldensian Bible. Dont let yourself fall into cognitive dissonance as you know that the new corrupted versions of the Bible did not come out till late 1800s and the earliest witnesses can be shown were not the Alexandrian codices, or the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus these versions are based on.

Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Rick H] #155273
08/21/13 04:51 PM
08/21/13 04:51 PM
Johann  Offline
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Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
You completely ignore the final results in you eagerness to protect the integrity of the Greek text:

Quote:
In spite of his great influence and authority over the translation, the finished work of the KJV translators did not satisfy Bancroft. This proud Archbishop had to make some changes in the translation before it was even published. Paine noted that Miles Smith, final Editor of the KJV with Thomas Bilson, "protested that after he and Bilson had finished, Bishop Bancroft made fourteen more changes" (MEN BEHIND THE KJV, p. 128).

Henry Jessey, a Baptist pastor in the early 1600's, complained about the KJV for its bent favoring "episcopacy," and said that Bancroft, "who was supervisor of the present translation, altered it in fourteen places to make it speak the language of prelacy" (Williams, Common English Version, p. 53). "Prelacy" refers to a system of church government by Prelates such as Archbishops and Bishops set over more than one local church.

Were these fourteen changes directly inspired or approved by God? Are they the "verbally inspired Word of God, preserved through all ages since the Apostles?" One reason to question these fourteen changes is that the changes were certainly made to support episcoplian church government views of the Church of England. The changes were also in violation of some of the translation rules for the KJV. In addition, expressed opposition by some of the KJV translators to these changes indicate that these changes were viewed wrong by these translators.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155275
08/21/13 06:09 PM
08/21/13 06:09 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,245
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
You completely ignore the final results in you eagerness to protect the integrity of the Greek text:

Quote:
In spite of his great influence and authority over the translation, the finished work of the KJV translators did not satisfy Bancroft. This proud Archbishop had to make some changes in the translation before it was even published. Paine noted that Miles Smith, final Editor of the KJV with Thomas Bilson, "protested that after he and Bilson had finished, Bishop Bancroft made fourteen more changes" (MEN BEHIND THE KJV, p. 128).

Henry Jessey, a Baptist pastor in the early 1600's, complained about the KJV for its bent favoring "episcopacy," and said that Bancroft, "who was supervisor of the present translation, altered it in fourteen places to make it speak the language of prelacy" (Williams, Common English Version, p. 53). "Prelacy" refers to a system of church government by Prelates such as Archbishops and Bishops set over more than one local church.

Were these fourteen changes directly inspired or approved by God? Are they the "verbally inspired Word of God, preserved through all ages since the Apostles?" One reason to question these fourteen changes is that the changes were certainly made to support episcoplian church government views of the Church of England. The changes were also in violation of some of the translation rules for the KJV. In addition, expressed opposition by some of the KJV translators to these changes indicate that these changes were viewed wrong by these translators.
I am not claiming any Bible is perfect, but at least the ones of the Majority Text were done with careful and good intent with great integrity for a holy work, which cannot be said for those of the Minority Text at any level.

Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Rick H] #155276
08/21/13 07:54 PM
08/21/13 07:54 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Rick H
I am not claiming any Bible is perfect, but at least the ones of the Majority Text were done with careful and good intent with great integrity for a holy work, which cannot be said for those of the Minority Text at any level.


The headline here refers to the end results where you only pick samples that support you views while you ignore what was presented here. Is that being fair in your evaluation?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155277
08/21/13 09:21 PM
08/21/13 09:21 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Johann,

Your citation makes no mention of what "fourteen changes" were made. You have only added questions to the mix here, not answers. As one who works with other translators, I can attest to the fact that every translator tends to view his or her own work as superior to that of other translators. It's just part of the nature of the work.

I have two dear friends, for example, who are involved with translating the writings of Mrs. White. Both are longtime Adventists, and both are good translators who have dedicated themselves to the work. Some years back, they each sent a copy of some of their translations to the other for editing/final check. Instead of validating each other, however, they each ended up nearly completely retranslating the other's work--putting red ink almost everywhere on it! It may easily be said that translators have as many ways of translating as there are personalities--we each have our own way of saying things.

I think it quite possible that those "fourteen changes" were of a similar nature. Even if they were something more unfaithful to the text, they could never match the errors of the modern versions which have come in from corrupted manuscripts.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Green Cochoa] #155287
08/21/13 10:10 PM
08/21/13 10:10 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Johann,

Your citation makes no mention of what "fourteen changes" were made. You have only added questions to the mix here, not answers. As one who works with other translators, I can attest to the fact that every translator tends to view his or her own work as superior to that of other translators. It's just part of the nature of the work.

I have two dear friends, for example, who are involved with translating the writings of Mrs. White. Both are longtime Adventists, and both are good translators who have dedicated themselves to the work. Some years back, they each sent a copy of some of their translations to the other for editing/final check. Instead of validating each other, however, they each ended up nearly completely retranslating the other's work--putting red ink almost everywhere on it! It may easily be said that translators have as many ways of translating as there are personalities--we each have our own way of saying things.

I think it quite possible that those "fourteen changes" were of a similar nature. Even if they were something more unfaithful to the text, they could never match the errors of the modern versions which have come in from corrupted manuscripts.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


If you had taken time to read the whole text you would have known exactly what was referred to. Your story of your friends hardly applies here.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155290
08/22/13 12:29 AM
08/22/13 12:29 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Johann,

I've read your posts. I don't see anywhere in them that identifies the changes. Only a categorical "topic" for them seems to be supplied. Help me here...am I missing something?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Green Cochoa] #155296
08/22/13 08:31 AM
08/22/13 08:31 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Johann,

I've read your posts. I don't see anywhere in them that identifies the changes. Only a categorical "topic" for them seems to be supplied. Help me here...am I missing something?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


Yes, definitely. Why should this topic be so blurred to you?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155298
08/22/13 09:59 AM
08/22/13 09:59 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
That's another blurry sort of response, I suppose. Please let us all know what the fourteen changes were so that we can evaluate them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Green Cochoa] #155303
08/22/13 11:46 AM
08/22/13 11:46 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
That's another blurry sort of response, I suppose. Please let us all know what the fourteen changes were so that we can evaluate them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


What capacity do you have to evaluate them when you have seen nothing yet?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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