Your recollection seems to differ from mine. Let's refresh our memories. Here's a snip from post #155155 made on 08/17/13 08:41 PM (emphasis mine):


You asked "how" and I gave you God's word for the answer. It wasn't lightning; it was a sword. Assuming you weren't being an obnoxious jerk, I assumed you wanted information, so I gave it to you. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you just lacked information.

But I may have assumed too much.


It turns out that you didn't lack information. You knew about 1 Chronicles. I specifically didn't mention it, giving you just what you asked for. You asked for "how" so I told you "how" Saul was killed. Then you brought up 1 Chronicles yourself, which tells us "who" killed Saul.

Therein lies the ruse. You are desperately seeking to hide your lack, but it has come out in the open. You know what God said, so you don't lack information. What you lack is FAITH. Some may say it's bad genetics, or damaged ribosomes, or some other excuse, but it all comes down to faithlessness. You don't have faith in God's word. It's right there in front of you, plain as day, but you cannot get yourself to accept it. Like many modern Eve's, you want to deviate from what God has said, and live to tell about it.

kland, that path leads to destruction. Satan was lying to Eve when he said that we can go against God's word and everything will still be OK. Your only hope is to submit to God, resist the Devil, and he will flee from you.

God said it, we must believe it. Now, you will be tempted to add "and that's good enough for me." But don't let Satan keep fooling you. It does not have to be good enough for you. You can ask God why, how, who, where, when. Ask Him whatever you want, and He'll answer you whenever you are ready for the answer. But you will NEVER be ready for the answer unless you have submitted to God and accept WHAT He says.

"But he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore He killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse."

God said He killed Saul. Do you accept it? Unless you do, all your questions will only lead to deeper doubt.

And please don't assume that what seems reasonable to you is what others should do. For example, I wouldn't let liberals decide how I should fulfill God's will for me. You decide what's reasonable for yourself. And as you can see, I don't always answer questions the way you expect them to be answered. And it turns out that my method sometimes elicits more information than expected.

The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Manuscript 24, 1886 (written in Europe in 1886). {1SM 21.2}

God cannot protect those that reject Him. God takes responsibility for that which He does not prevent. The case of Saul, God could not intervene. The same thing happened with Jesus as shown in Mark 6, Luke 4 and Matthew 13, where unbelief prevented good works.



Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Ah - but DID God send the fiery serpents? What does EGW say? NO!

God killed Saul, the same way He destroyed Jerusalem in AD70, and the same way He send fiery serpents to bite the children in the desert.

And the same way that David killed Uriah, right? "By removing his protection."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

No, they are not even close. The death of Uriah was premeditated murder. In the death of Saul, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the fiery serpents, there was nothing God could do. Did Uriah reject David? No. Why could Jesus do so little healing in His own town? Their unbelief! Why were the serpents no longer restrained? Their unbelief! Uriah trusted David, and David betrayed him. God was rejected by the people people in the wilderness. God was rejected by the people of Jerusalem. If you think that the way Uriah died and the death of Saul are the same, then yes, God is a murderer. But these situations are NOT the same.

Are you trying to say that God does not plan what He does? Don't you suppose that everything He does is premeditated?

David killed Uriah without just cause. God's cause in killing Saul was just. That is the difference. I agree that David's motivation was vastly different than God's, and in that sense, the two scenarios are not comparable. But in the sense of the manner in which the deaths were executed, there is much similarity.

For example, suppose for a moment that David was justified in killing Uriah. Suppose Uriah had deserved death. How would this have changed things if David had used the exact same methodology to extinguish Uriah's life? Would it then have been counted as "murder?"

No, God does not murder. But He does kill. The difference is motive. This difference is defined in the Bible. We've been through that before in another thread, I believe.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Actually, prior to that in #154958 I had asked:

Where did you answer that question? You then proceeded to say if God said it why should we disagree and that I didn't believe the Bible? I brought you back to my question as to why we should disagree with what you think the Bible says by saying "Regarding Saul,..."




Could you show me where I brought that text up. I had assumed you were well familiar with the text as several have discussed that in the past. I believe you brought that text up in #155240 and #155333.

But what did God say?

First you say Saul killed himself.
Then you say God killed him.
Which is it? What are you saying?



But you showed where Saul fell on his own sword. Do you accept God's word in the Bible? Unless you do, all your questions will only lead to deeper doubt.



If liberals can recognize wrong and unfairness, why shouldn't we?
Or are you saying tough cookies to them, that's how God is and they and we should get over it?

Tell us, do you think Saul was deceived by God? Do you think Saul had no idea?

Yes, I believe you had waffled on this idea in the past.

So God does not murder but He kills with premeditation? I'd like to see you wrangle that around your vague distinction between "murder" and "killing"!

To this we will have to agree to disagree. GOD DESTROYS NO MAN. Killing is a violation of God's law. Lying is a violation of God's law. What was Rebekah's motivation with Jacob and Esau?

The words, “Thou shalt not bear false witness, steal, or kill,” set forth the pattern of behavior no matter what the circumstances, pressures, threats, demands, necessities, advantages, or whatever else it may be. In God’s kingdom and under His principles, the end can never, never, never justify the means. Therefore, in every situation, the law, and not expedience, is to be consulted and obeyed.

Yes, you had asked a prior question. And you don't know where I answered it because I did not answer that question. So please don't say I gave any kind of answer when I purposely did not answer.


You are correct again. And this is where our discussion has stalled. If God said it, why don't you believe it? Do you know better than God?


But you didn't bring back your original question. You asked a new question. You asked "how" God killed Saul. This one I answered, using a very specific verse.


That was a bad assumption. I don't read all discussions. I don't even necessarily read all posts in a thread I'm active in, like this one.

You brought up that Scripture in post #155210 (click to see for yourself), which is actually quoted in my post that you referenced. You said, "What I'd like you to find are the plain words in 1 Chronicles 10 and answer the question, Did God slay Saul or did Saul kill himself?" (emphasis mine) And so, at your behest, I went to 1 Chronicles 10 and found the applicable verses.


Don't play dumb now, kland. You know what God said. You brought up the specific chapter where God said it.

You are not confused about WHAT God said. You are confused because what He said does not match your opinion, and you are having great difficulty letting go. It works that way with all cherished sin.

And don't hide behind your feigned confusion about what I am trying to say. What I say is irrelevant in the big picture. Focus on what God said. Don't make an idol of man's words. Go to God's Word. Submit to God's Word.

If you still don't know what God said, even after all the times I've quoted it, it's not a matter of ignorance. It is now rebellion.

BTW, I just noticed that you never quote it. It's as if you can't even get yourself to copy and paste it. Reminds me of those movies where vampires cower in the presence of garlic...


I don't have any doubt that Saul fell on his own sword. I found it for you, didn't I? God said it, and I believe it. Yup, I'm sure Saul fell on his own sword.

What I need help finding, if you would be so kind as to return the favor, is a verse that says Saul killed himself. We all know the verse that says God killed him. But is there a verse that says Saul killed himself? Is there a verse that ascribes the killing of Saul to Saul himself?


You can't recognize wrong and unfairness while denying God and His Word. All they have is their own human opinions and feelings as their standard. And if God's ways are not their ways, yes, that is tough cookies for them. If they stiffen their necks and harden their hearts against God's ways, cookies will be the least of their worries.

If you think they are a good guide, then go ahead and follow in their footsteps. You can sit in judgment of God whenever He doesn't meet your standards. But I would rather not go down that road.

If it is true that the hardened sinner dies because God cannot protect those who are completely against Him and they are separated from the source of life and God cannot do anything to prevent their death, why is Satan still alive today? How has he managed to avoid death for so long? Where is he getting his life from?