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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155583
08/29/13 03:46 PM
08/29/13 03:46 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Elle
What's the point of doing right or good if we are all going to be saved? The ones that do most wrongs will have a greater debt to pay than the one that did wrong less. The one that partakes of the first ressurection will reign with Christ for 1000 year and will minister to the others for the other 47000 years whereas the others will have to pay for all their debt(sin) towards others.

That's not true. God has provided precedence for his actions in:

1. Adam and Eve
2. Cain and Abel
3. The Antediluvian world
4. Sodom and Gomorrah
5. First of Israel out of Egypt
6. The Canaanites
7. The Jews

In all these cases, the word of God held true.

1. Adam and Eve died (eventually)
2. Cain's line was left to continue (until the Flood)
3. The Antediluvian world perished in the Flood
4. Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown by fire from heaven
5. The first of Israel never entered Canaan because of unbelief
6. The Canaanites were swept away (eventually)
7. The Jews were taken to Babylon (& Rome), their city burnt.

When God says, "You will surely die," He means what he says, very literally: you will NOT live forever. You will NOT have access to the Tree of Life. But there is someone who wants you to believe that you will "not surely die", someone who knows God but who is laying the foundation for your fall by enticing you away from the direct commandment of God and the judgement to come: eternal life or eternal death.
....
..

Last edited by James Peterson; 08/29/13 03:48 PM.
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155589
08/29/13 06:58 PM
08/29/13 06:58 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Elle
What's the point of doing right or good if we are all going to be saved? The ones that do most wrongs will have a greater debt to pay than the one that did wrong less. The one that partakes of the first ressurection will reign with Christ for 1000 year and will minister to the others for the other 47000 years whereas the others will have to pay for all their debt(sin) towards others.
That's why we should invest in Gold Silver today, right? So it will be easier to pay.


Quote:
Is it better to be first to receive the inheritance than to be the last group?
I think you've said before something along this line. Always good to be first, the privileged, right?

Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: kland] #155591
08/29/13 08:21 PM
08/29/13 08:21 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Matthew 20:8-15 When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, 'Call the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and then going to the first.' 9 When those hired about five o'clock came, each of them received the usual daily wage. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received the usual daily wage. 11 And when they received it, they grumbled against the landowner, 12 saying, 'These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' 13 But he replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage? 14 Take what belongs to you and go; I choose to give to this last the same as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?'


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: James Peterson] #155694
09/02/13 12:48 AM
09/02/13 12:48 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Posts: 25,132
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Eternal death as in the 2nd death resulting from being cast into the Lake of Fire created by all the fire reigning down from heaven that consumes those, both root and branch, who have not accepted Him in the respective life times
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: Elle
What's the point of doing right or good if we are all going to be saved? The ones that do most wrongs will have a greater debt to pay than the one that did wrong less. The one that partakes of the first ressurection will reign with Christ for 1000 year and will minister to the others for the other 47000 years whereas the others will have to pay for all their debt(sin) towards others.

That's not true. God has provided precedence for his actions in:

1. Adam and Eve
2. Cain and Abel
3. The Antediluvian world
4. Sodom and Gomorrah
5. First of Israel out of Egypt
6. The Canaanites
7. The Jews

In all these cases, the word of God held true.

1. Adam and Eve died (eventually)
2. Cain's line was left to continue (until the Flood)
3. The Antediluvian world perished in the Flood
4. Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown by fire from heaven
5. The first of Israel never entered Canaan because of unbelief
6. The Canaanites were swept away (eventually)
7. The Jews were taken to Babylon (& Rome), their city burnt.

When God says, "You will surely die," He means what he says, very literally: you will NOT live forever. You will NOT have access to the Tree of Life. But there is someone who wants you to believe that you will "not surely die", someone who knows God but who is laying the foundation for your fall by enticing you away from the direct commandment of God and the judgement to come: eternal life or eternal death.
....
..


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #155704
09/02/13 03:40 PM
09/02/13 03:40 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Eternal death as in the 2nd death

Daryl eternal death is not even a concept that exist in the Bible even less it being related to the 2nd death.

You haven't replied to the Bible evidences I presented concerning the 2nd death being a repentance/submission to the Lord. Please address those scriptures before jumping in other texts.

Originally Posted By: James Peterson
When God says, "You will surely die," He means what he says, very literally: you will NOT live forever. You will NOT have access to the Tree of Life. But there is someone who wants you to believe that you will "not surely die", someone who knows God but who is laying the foundation for your fall by enticing you away from the direct commandment of God and the judgement to come: eternal life or eternal death.
Daryl I didn't want to reply to James point because it is as if James has not been following the discussion or even if he has read any of it.

James argument that the Lord said "you will surely die" that He meant this literally and He meant a eternal death that cannot be backed up with scripture, by which he's also disregarding the judgment process describe in the Law, and not accounting all other scriptures that was presented. So where to start to respond to James post??? To me James is trying real hard to find proofs that this vomit (man's interpretation) is good food.

James, what you said above by stressing the literal....goes against what Paul said when he said that the law(Pentateuch) is spiritual(Rom 7:14)...this includes what was said in Genesis too. For sure there are a literal meanings in what is written and I never said there wasn't any 1st death nor did I disregard other scriptures that all needs to be accounted in this picture. I have presented these in post#155566 page 8. Please James address the Biblical texts what I have presented concerning the first death and the second death. Also I would appreciate that Daryl and Asygo address it as they are the ones that questioned it.

All these texts(the Pentateuch, the Prophets and the book of Revelation) has spiritual meaning hidden behind the literal that brings life. Paul said about reading the Bible with the letter literally: "for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." 2Cor 3:6

Scriptures needs to be read with the Spirit because we are carnal and the carnal mind cannot understand spiritual things and only see the letter.

Also the Lord made very clear that all the things spoken in the Bible via the prophets are spoken in "dark speeches" (chiydah, a puzzle, a riddle) which are symbolic and it needs work to solve the riddle by finding the meaning of the symbolism with other scriptures. See Num 12:4-8


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155721
09/03/13 12:53 PM
09/03/13 12:53 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Elle
Daryl eternal death is not even a concept that exist in the Bible even less it being related to the 2nd death.


Which Bible are you reading?

My Bible speaks of the eternal damnation.

Originally Posted By: The Bible
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:29)


We also find references to perishing forever, having one's name blotted out forever, etc.

Originally Posted By: The Bible
They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it. (Job 4:20)

Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. (Psalm 9:5)

God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah. (Psalm 52:5)

When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: But thou, LORD, [art most] high for evermore. (Psalm 92:7-8)

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.(2 Thessalonians 1:8-10)


To me, those verses are indicative of an eternal death awaiting the wicked.

Elle, if it is possible that this game of life involves eternal death or eternal life as its reward, and if it is possible that this game is for keeps, with no second chances, why should you or anyone risk believing the alternative? If you lose, you lose big time.

If you believe as I do, that eternal death is a reality for the wicked and that there are no second chances following this life's probation, and if in reality the other position is correct, you have not lost anything.

In other words, my belief is the safest, whichever way the truth happens to be. smile

But if the Bible is to be believed, eternal death is real.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Green Cochoa] #155738
09/03/13 05:31 PM
09/03/13 05:31 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Re 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
15 and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(RSV)

Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155745
09/03/13 08:27 PM
09/03/13 08:27 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Elle
Also I would appreciate that Daryl and Asygo address it as they are the ones that questioned it.

I will get back to it. I haven't forgotten, just out of time for now.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: asygo] #155746
09/03/13 08:40 PM
09/03/13 08:40 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
But I'm still hung up on a previous thing. Looking at the type, the ass that was not redeemed died; it did not go to work and eventually pay its debt itself.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: kland] #155747
09/03/13 08:42 PM
09/03/13 08:42 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Re 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;

Elle, if the second death = repentance, then Death and Hades will be repenting. I'm not buying that at this time.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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