Forums118
Topics9,217
Posts195,976
Members1,324
|
Most Online5,850 Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: kland]
#155192
08/19/13 08:36 AM
08/19/13 08:36 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
As has been pointed out more than once here, this topic is not about who gets blame for eating the forbidden fruit. Nor is it about who's sin was worse. Even the smallest sin, unrepented of, is sufficient to prevent one's salvation. The topic addresses whether or not Eve will be in Heaven. Simple as that. So far, we have at least one statement speaking of Adam, but notably omitting any reference to Eve, in Heaven, and one statement speaking of them repenting and avoiding utter ruin. Here is the fuller context of that statement. Adam and Eve at their creation had knowledge of the original law of God. It was imprinted upon their hearts, and they were acquainted with the claims of law upon them. When they transgressed the law of God, and fell from their state of happy innocence, and became sinners, the future of the fallen race was not relieved by a single ray of hope. God pitied them and Christ devised the plan for their salvation by himself bearing the guilt. When the curse was pronounced upon the earth and upon man in connection with the curse was a promise that through Christ there was hope and pardon for the transgression of God's law. Although gloom and darkness hung, like the pall of death, over the future, yet in the promise of the Redeemer, the star of hope lighted up the dark future. The gospel was first preached to Adam by Christ. Adam and Eve felt sincere sorrow and repentance for their guilt. They believed the precious promise of God, and were saved from utter ruin. {RH, April 29, 1875 par. 4}
Paradise was lost to Adam and the curse was pronounced upon the earth because of the transgression of the Father's law, and death came because of sin. Adam found by sad experience that it was easier to transgress the commandments of God than to resist and press back the tide of moral wretchedness that was pressing in upon him. Those who lived before the flood were favored in having a knowledge of the law of God communicated to them by Adam who had conversed with God and angels in Eden. He lived among them nearly one thousand years, and by his teachings, example, and humble obedience to all God's requirements, exalted the law of God. He sought to turn his posterity from transgression to a life of obedience and faith in a Saviour to come. {RH, April 29, 1875 par. 5} Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155199
08/19/13 01:47 PM
08/19/13 01:47 PM
|
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,475
Midland
|
|
And as has been pointed out, the specif omission of something does not mean it is not true.
Then there's the issue of a specific mention of them avoiding utter ruin.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: kland]
#155226
08/20/13 01:33 PM
08/20/13 01:33 PM
|
NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
|
|
And as has been pointed out, the specif omission of something does not mean it is not true. Then there's the issue of a specific mention of them avoiding utter ruin. Will Adam be in heaven? Will Eve be there? What about Noah, Solomon, any Pope or modern-day televangelist? What about William Miller or Ellen White, Harold Camping? Three times JESUS CHRIST, a person no less that the Son of the living God, warned us NOT to enter into stupid and uncalled-for speculations, of things beyond our purview. No.1 "But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand IS NOT MINE TO GIVE; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared." (Mark. 10:40) No.2 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father." (Mark 13:32) No.3 "AND HE SAID UNTO THEM, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." (Acts 1:7) Is it right therefore for men and women to speak saying, "I saw this or that in heaven, that this or that will be saved, that such and such will be there"? It is the devil's own work to come in the quiet of the night, whispering in the ear of the gullible, "You are as God, and can see thinks wrapped in impenetrable darkness, things which pique the interest and desire of common men." It is written, "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God:but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deut. 29:29) ..... ...
Last edited by James Peterson; 08/20/13 01:40 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: James Peterson]
#155256
08/21/13 01:05 PM
08/21/13 01:05 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
No, James, it is not speculation to speak of Adam in Heaven. We know he will be there. We also know William Miller will be there, and I think we have pretty solid evidence that Mrs. White will be there too. I wouldn't try to claim any popes will be there. Certainly, you are right, there are some things that are not revealed to us. It is true that we are not to merely speculate about everything. On the other hand, there is no harm in thinking about some things that are not doctrinally important. We are not obligated to omit from our thinking every non-salvific thought. There is no harm in seeking knowledge of all kinds. One may not know everything, but there is no harm in trying to know more. Not everything is revealed to us directly by God, for He also endowed us with intellect and ability to seek after knowledge ourselves. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155270
08/21/13 04:35 PM
08/21/13 04:35 PM
|
NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
|
|
No, James, it is not speculation to speak of Adam in Heaven. We know he will be there. We also know William Miller will be there, and I think we have pretty solid evidence that Mrs. White will be there too. And the Biblical evidence for this is .... ? Certainly, you are right, there are some things that are not revealed to us. Thank you. ... ..
Last edited by James Peterson; 08/21/13 04:37 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: James Peterson]
#155281
08/21/13 10:50 PM
08/21/13 10:50 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
Here's what we have for William Miller: My attention was then called to William Miller. He looked perplexed and was bowed with anxiety and distress for his people. The company who had been united and loving in 1844 were losing their love, opposing one another, and falling into a cold, backslidden state. As he beheld this, grief wasted his strength. I saw leading men watching him, and fearing lest he should receive the third angel's message and the commandments of God. And as he would lean toward the light from heaven, these men would lay some plan to draw his mind away. A human influence was exerted to keep him in darkness and to retain his influence among those who opposed the truth. At length William Miller raised his voice against the light from heaven. He failed in not receiving the message which would have fully explained his disappointment and cast a light and glory on the past, which would have revived his exhausted energies, brightened his hope, and led him to glorify God. He leaned to human wisdom instead of divine, but being broken with arduous labor in his Master's cause and by age, he was not as accountable as those who kept him from the truth. They are responsible; the sin rests upon them. {EW 257.1}
If William Miller could have seen the light of the third message, many things which looked dark and mysterious to him would have been explained. But his brethren professed so deep love and interest for him, that he thought he could not tear away from them. His heart would incline toward the truth, and then he looked at his brethren; they opposed it. Could he tear away from those who had stood side by side with him in proclaiming the coming of Jesus? He thought they surely would not lead him astray. {EW 258.1}
God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan, the dominion of death, and hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth. Moses erred as he was about to enter the Promised Land. So also, I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this; others must account for it. But angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump. {EW 258.2} Of course, the Bible was not written after Miller's time, so we could not expect the Bible to tell us this about him. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155288
08/21/13 11:47 PM
08/21/13 11:47 PM
|
NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
|
|
Of course, the Bible was not written after Miller's time, so we could not expect the Bible to tell us this about him.
William Miller was like H.W. Armstrong and Harold Camping among others in our recent history. They were blind-sided by the express word of the Son of God. Told NOT to do something, they believe they had better knowledge and they ran ahead of God .... and fell. Of them God says, " But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak ... even that prophet shall die." (Deut. 18:20) Interestingly now, however and IN SPITE OF THAT, you come along, bluntly contradict even that word (even after seeing their mistake) and declare William Miller will be in heaven. It's like God has given up on you and you begin to imagine your eyes were opened and you have become wiser than Daniel. ... ..
Last edited by James Peterson; 08/21/13 11:57 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: James Peterson]
#155289
08/22/13 01:27 AM
08/22/13 01:27 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
James, What was Miller told not to do? In fact, you speak as if you do not know him. Have you read his writings? He never claimed to be a prophet. He was merely preaching the prophecies of the Bible. He did not have any prophecies to tell save those contained in the Bible itself. Now, let's get.... Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: James Peterson]
#155292
08/22/13 01:49 AM
08/22/13 01:49 AM
|
SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
|
|
James: Green and I, in recent times, have often disagreed and I have spoken quite frankly about this. I do not agree with some of what he has said in this thread. But, I must say that your responses to him have not treated him fairly and do not speak well of you. Here is a partial example of what I am speaking of: It's like God has given up on you and you begin to imagine your eyes were opened and you have become wiser than Daniel. The above is simply not fair to Green.
Last edited by Gregory; 08/22/13 01:51 AM.
Gregory May God's will be done.
|
|
|
Re: Will Eve be in Heaven?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155304
08/22/13 12:49 PM
08/22/13 12:49 PM
|
NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
|
|
James, What was Miller told not to do? In fact, you speak as if you do not know him. Have you read his writings? He never claimed to be a prophet. He was merely preaching the prophecies of the Bible. He did not have any prophecies to tell save those contained in the Bible itself. He was just like H.W. Armstrong and Harold Camping. They never claimed to be prophets, but went about speaking of conclusions they had "discovered" in the Bible, of things contrary to the warning of Jesus Christ. And you ask "what was Miller told not do to"? You cannot see their error, can you? (John 9:41) Will Eve be in heaven? That indeed is the topic of the thread; but even after seven pages of back and forth, there is no agreement on the subject. Therefore there is no Biblical indication of her salvation. To step into the gap, therefore, and seek to set her there or otherwise, is attempting to "sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: to ascend above the heights of the clouds; to be like the most High." (Isaiah 14:13-14) Are you the Judge of men? ..... ...
Last edited by James Peterson; 08/22/13 12:50 PM.
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|