You should read Patriarchs and Prophets, chapter 1, Great Controversy chapter 1 and chapters 29. And consider:

Note these points:
1) There is NO precendent for the exercise of force. NONE
2) ALL compelling power is found under Satan's government. Thus, God NEVER uses compelling power.
3) The Lord's principles are NOT of this order.
4) No one is at liberty to cause physical or mental suffering. This is a feature of Satan only

Had God ever killed anyone? No. But does God take responsibility when there is suffering? Yes. Did God kill Saul? Saul committed suicide. Did God send the fiery serpents to bite the people? No. Did God destroy Jerusalem? No. We know how God is involved in all these situations, and more. God does not use compelling force. God destroys no man. We know the cause of all suffering, sickness and death. It is sin.

Arnold,

I'm realizing more and more the danger of veganism. Brain-damaged vegans cannot reason normally. It is futile to try. We just had a major setback in our work in this region of the world because of a vegan who could not be reasonable, but who cast aside God's workers over a few small differences between them. To extend this conversation is likewise futile. Health of body affects the health of the mind. The health of the mind affects the spiritual experience and understanding. This is why Satan works so hard to destroy us, both soul and body.

When God destroys, it is after Satan has already destroyed the possibility of the soul's salvation. God must then clean up the mess. The real destroyer was Satan. But God will destroy all sinners in the end, and make a clean and pure universe again. Sin cannot clean up its own mess. It is likely only to further spread and contaminate. It is a great evil. Praise God that He is strong and will take charge in the end to bring everything back into perfect order as it was before sin!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Hm - who on this list has admitted to having had B12 deficiency? I know of only one.

Some are averse to making admissions. It's probably a pride thing.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

False allegations are a violation of the Decalog.

Well, how am I supposed to know you didn't answer it when it sure seemed like you did by saying Saul fell on his sword?
Well, maybe it was a pour choice of word, or maybe I was susceptible to another substituting words in another thread. But the Bible says God killed Saul and it says Saul fell on his sword. If God takes responsibility for everything that happens, would that not be "how" without Him actually killing Saul?

And God's word said Saul fell on his sword. Why do YOU choose what you want to believe?

You're right, it is rebellion. Rebellion against you starting out with one verse, but then when you found another one, you switched over to it.

I had started out assuming you were familiar with it. Tom, MM, myself, APL, and others have talked about the verse at length. For years. That's why all we have to do when people are presenting error about God's character is say, "Who killed Saul?"

MM knew about the verse. He didn't know about the one in the first of the chapter. I didn't expect someone not to know about the God slaying Saul one.




Think Saul intended his armorbearer to kill him? When he refused, would it be reasonable for him to intend to kill himself by falling on his sword? It's odd to me you are asking for this. Maybe you didn't know this verse and are now convinced? Otherwise, why did you ask this?

Dead. Saul fell on his sword and now is dead. Is there anything else you can make of that?


And maybe you haven't read all posts. Consider this one:

So, like me, you can find no Scripture that specifically says that Saul "killed" himself. He fell on his sword, he died. From that, you INFER that one caused the other. You further add the conjecture that Saul INTENDED to kill himself. But, in all this, not one verse that SAYS Saul killed himself.

You did, however, find inspired text that says Saul killed himself. But you had to leave the Bible to do it, and take it as God-inspired truth.

Interestingly, the Bible specifically states that Saul was *killed* by someone other than Saul. Furthermore, the same author that told you Saul killed himself also says that God destroys sinners, as does the Bible.

God will not always be mocked; He will not long be trifled with. "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." Isaiah 13:9. {PP 167.2}

(Prediction: Now someone is going to accuse me of rejecting the SOP.)

No need to.

I see we are both correct.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Arnold,

Mrs. White also says that God killed Saul. She seems to put it this way: God killed Saul, but Saul sped up the process once he had already received his mortal wound. Look at this statement:



It appears the archers had already done their damage. Saul was in no condition either to fight or to flee. He was in an unenviable position of helplessness and hopeless--for he had also rejected God, and God had rejected him. Saul, already wounded badly, hastened his own end.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.