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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Daryl]
#155824
09/05/13 11:12 PM
09/05/13 11:12 PM
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I also look at the whole Bible (OT & NT) and don't limit it to the Law of Moses, or interpret it to the Law of Moses.
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Daryl]
#155825
09/06/13 12:16 AM
09/06/13 12:16 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
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But even if we look at the Mosaic law, it's hard to make a good case that death=repentance.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: asygo]
#155826
09/06/13 01:36 AM
09/06/13 01:36 AM
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This discussion seems to be merging the spiritual meaning and physically meaning of death as if it were one and the same thing.
Paul uses the physical reality of death to ILLUSTRATE spiritual meanings, not to merge the two.
Ephesians 2-
We are dead in our sins, God through His spirit quickens us.
We aren't physically dead, but our spiritual natures are dead and need the quickening power of the Holy Spirit.
Our carnal natures are naturally alive and flourishing, this carnal nature (see Romans 8) is what is put to death so the spiritual nature can flourish.
When Paul says he 'dies daily" it is referring to the carnal nature that he must "starve' so the "spiritual nature' can thrive.
This has nothing to do with the physical death when our breathing and heartbeat stops and we return to dust.
To converge the two as if they were the same leads into dangerous paths.
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: asygo]
#155827
09/06/13 02:23 AM
09/06/13 02:23 AM
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Died February 12, 2019
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Elle : Your thoughts Asygo with your comment on which death Paul died daily?
Asygo : Not the 2nd death. It's more likely this: How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:2) For he who has died has been freed from sin. (Romans 6:7) Yes and these are not talking about a physical death right? but a spiritual death which is a repentance or submission to the will of the Lord. This is the sense in which repentance = death. Looking at the law, the death it demands for sin never allowed the sinner to come back the next day to do it again.
You say I read it too literally. I could say the same for you. Try this on for size: Whenever you read about repentance, it doesn't really mean repentance; what it means is that the person will die. When the law says slaves will be set free, it is merely symbolic of the fact that sinners will die. Your interpretation is what Isaiah calls vomit(interpretation of men) for you only took portion of the Jubilee law and ignored the other parts that doesn't agree with you. Jesus said we need " to live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of the Lord." Not only by the ones that agree on my believes, or twist the word of the Lord to say what I want it to say. The Law of Jubilee is clear that at the end of the 49th year, all debt are erased(cancelled) which means total forgiveness and everyone is restore back to their inheritance. "AV Lv 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family....AV Lv 25:28 But if he be not able to restore [it] to him, then that which is sold shall remain in the hand of him that hath bought it until the year of jubile: and in the jubile it shall go out, and he shall return unto his possession."That argument rests on the same logic as yours, namely, take what the Bible says and claim it is really symbolic of what you wish it said. No that is not true, the proof is just above. Then I have provided scriptures to disproof everyones arguments or theories and met everyones scripture proofs who claim texts where saying this and that which where false which was twisted texts or adding things to texts that wasn't there. The worse is how many just ignore so much texts that doesn't say what they believe. The SDA Church has taken interpretation of men and made it their foundation on it instead of the word of God and neglecte their duty to test all doctrines and interpretations against the Bible. I thought your ears were open, Asygo. But this shows that it is not yet your time. That's ok. I'm not here to convert or convict people for it is the work of the Lord. I'm here to study to understand the Lord's ways if you have me some more. I'm not saying that you don't hear at all the Lord for everyone hear His voice. However, most cannot different it from the voice of the old man, nor do they know His ways. However, I appreciate your respond and honesty... Bless you
Blessings
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: dedication]
#155828
09/06/13 02:28 AM
09/06/13 02:28 AM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
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This discussion seems to be merging the spiritual meaning and physically meaning of death as if it were one and the same thing.
Paul uses the physical reality of death to ILLUSTRATE spiritual meanings, not to merge the two.
Ephesians 2-
We are dead in our sins, God through His spirit quickens us.
We aren't physically dead, but our spiritual natures are dead and need the quickening power of the Holy Spirit.
Our carnal natures are naturally alive and flourishing, this carnal nature (see Romans 8) is what is put to death so the spiritual nature can flourish.
When Paul says he 'dies daily" it is referring to the carnal nature that he must "starve' so the "spiritual nature' can thrive.
This has nothing to do with the physical death when our breathing and heartbeat stops and we return to dust.
To converge the two as if they were the same leads into dangerous paths.
dedication, That's what I've been saying. There are a physcial death and a Spiritual death...the two are different. However, everyone is having difficulty to admit that our baptism is a spiritual death -- repentance and submission to the will of the Lord.
Blessings
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Daryl]
#155829
09/06/13 02:51 AM
09/06/13 02:51 AM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Posts: 2,536
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Seeing this is a forum mainly for Seventh-day Adventists, I prefer a much better source than the one Elle is using to back up her own personal studies and interpretations, and that is the writings of Ellen White, who I believe is God's messenger for these last days in which she is God's lesser light (her writings) leading us to the greater light (the Bible writers).
In other words, if Elle and her source/s go contrary to God's messenger for these last days, I will choose her writings over anyboody's personal studies and interpretations. Daryl, my source is the Bible and the Bible alone. I've been here 5 years and my post shows this. I do not appreciate the false witness you have just given against me in this post. You have ask me in post #155753 the following Elle,
Where are you getting all of your interpretations from?
Are your interpretations coming from your own personal and prayerful study, or are you obtaining them from an internet source? The meaning of the second death, destruction, all man to be saved, the lake of fire being a baptism, no freewill, etc.... the Lord gave me all of this via personal studies. It was via looking up the Hebrew & Greek words and looking up all its occurrences in the Bible to derive the Lord's definition of words that I started to see things differently. I was sharing my studies about this on the forum in Restoration Ministry and Adventist Online. Then a year later, I came across Myron, an SDA, that from his own studies also came to the same understanding over 12 years ago. He came across the studies of Stephen Jones, who is a non-denominationalist who studies the law of Moses. When Myron shared what the studies from the Law of Moses that gave a very strong foundation to what I was seeing elsewhere in scripture. It was an Ephiphany(spelling correct?) moment for me. I then refuse to read Stephen's studies for nearly a year so I wouldn't be influenced by his interpretation. And I branched in studying the law on my own and on AO and over here. Yes, it is my personal studies, but now I do read Stephen Jones studies too, but will verify all texts and I do not just accept things without verifying and doing my own studying. You did me wrong and I expect an appology. At the odd time, I may read other's people thinking or studies at times as anyone does when I read what you or Asygo or anyone says on the forum, but I will verify it all against the Bible as instructed in Deut 13 & Deut 18 and Is 8:20 and Ez 14. I do not rest on others people interpretation like you admitted you do and live off every word they say as if they are infallible like you and most of us SDAs do with EGW. You admit this above by which she and James never approved of that and said it was a Christian duty to study for ourselves the Bible and prove all things from the Bible. It was that EGW counsel that I took seriously and was my purpose to come here 5 years ago. To prove all things and come to know the Lord's way is still my purpose today. Nothing has changed. The only thing that has changed is I have become more acquainted with the Law and what the Bible says and it is very evident it doesn't say what the SDA denomination has taught us.
Blessings
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Elle]
#155846
09/06/13 07:56 AM
09/06/13 07:56 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Elle, If as you say you are using the Bible and the Bible alone, please respond to THIS POST using the Bible alone. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155863
09/06/13 12:27 PM
09/06/13 12:27 PM
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SDA
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Posts: 6,512
Midland
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Elle, while the Bible is the standard, are you saying Ellen White is contrary to the Bible?
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Elle]
#155871
09/06/13 05:51 PM
09/06/13 05:51 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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The Law of Jubilee is clear that at the end of the 49th year, all debt are erased(cancelled) which means total forgiveness and everyone is restore back to their inheritance.
"AV Lv 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family....AV Lv 25:28 But if he be not able to restore [it] to him, then that which is sold shall remain in the hand of him that hath bought it until the year of jubile: and in the jubile it shall go out, and he shall return unto his possession." What about the law for the slave who gets his ear pierced? Does he also go free at the Jubilee?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support?
[Re: Elle]
#155872
09/06/13 05:52 PM
09/06/13 05:52 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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There are a physcial death and a Spiritual death...the two are different. What I and others have been saying is that the second death is a physical death, while you say it is a spiritual death. Right?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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