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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155807
09/05/13 02:08 PM
09/05/13 02:08 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Posts: 3,245
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
Rich, What is the purpose of the WORD of God? Is it not bringing salvation to individuals on this earth? Why not consider the following:

Quote:
But for reasons which I only partially understand, some are much more cautious about sharing God's Word. In the case of Russell and Colin Standish, their feelings about the Received Text are so strong, they almost seem to prefer no Bible at all rather than risk one they consider corrupt. The tragedy of that view comes clear from these two paragraphs:

In 1990 Colin was preaching at a Korean campmeeting in Georgia. He mentioned the widespread use of Bibles in many languages translated from the corrupted Greek manuscripts. After the service a number of Korean pastors wanted to know if their Bible was translated from corrupted manuscripts. It took little time to confirm the worst fears of the pastors. They explained that only one translation is now available in Korean -- and this translation is from corrupted manuscripts.

Even in the minuscule Pacific Island nation of Kiribati (formerly the Gilbert Islands), the present translation is based upon the corrupted Western manuscripts (p. 61).

I find the Korean scene especially poignant. Think of it B more than 100,000 Adventists in Korea, plus myriads of other Christians, all won and nurtured by a "corrupted" Bible? Please no! No doubt the Korean Bible could be improved just as Tyndale and Erasmus improved on Wycliffe. But let's not dismiss it as "corrupted."
If only we could hear and believe the godly good sense of the King James translators: "We affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible containeth the word of God, nay is the word of God."


This is from the paper I asked you to consider. And then also consider what this Bible Scholar has to say about the various manuscripts, and why your Textus Receptus might not be quite what you indicate it is.
Yes, and what happened to all those in Arianism who denied the divinity of Christ and that He is our Lord and Saviour. It causes real issues to have these Alexandrian text, the danger was recognized and they were rejected and now we have those who bring them and say its ok to accept them. The question still remains, what has changed........?

Last edited by Rick H; 09/05/13 02:09 PM.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Rick H] #155808
09/05/13 02:13 PM
09/05/13 02:13 PM
G
Gregory  Offline
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Posts: 2,364
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If our doctrines stand or fall on the basis of one Biblical text, they do not have a solid foundation.

All of our doctrines should be, and are, based upon the uniform witness of the Bible.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Rick H] #155812
09/05/13 05:00 PM
09/05/13 05:00 PM
Johann  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Yes, and what happened to all those in Arianism who denied the divinity of Christ and that He is our Lord and Saviour. It causes real issues to have these Alexandrian text, the danger was recognized and they were rejected and now we have those who bring them and say its ok to accept them. The question still remains, what has changed........?


You claim that since Arianism came from Alexandria, the Alexandrian texts must be corrupt.

Where is the connection? Do you have an unquestionable verification?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155819
09/05/13 07:27 PM
09/05/13 07:27 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,515
Midland
Verification? Simple. Not King James.

Say the only version one should read is not in your language or in an outdated language. Do everything possible to keep people from reading the Bible.


We do not study the Scriptures as much as we should. Instead of spending our time in studying the various themes of the day, we need to devote that time to the study of the Scriptures. We want to come with our Bibles on our knees before God and ask for wisdom from God to comprehend the treasures of truth. We cannot have root in ourselves unless we do this, for everything is to be shaken that can be shaken. The devil is working in a special manner with the popular churches to pick flaws with the Bible and with those who are working in Christ's lines, and infidelity prevails everywhere. It is the mystery of iniquity, the superhuman working of Satan, bewitching human minds with his power.--Ms 11, 1893, p. 3. ("Search the Scriptures," March 28, 1893.) {8MR 279.4}

Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: kland] #155822
09/05/13 08:51 PM
09/05/13 08:51 PM
Johann  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: kland
Verification? Simple. Not King James.

Say the only version one should read is not in your language or in an outdated language. Do everything possible to keep people from reading the Bible.


We do not study the Scriptures as much as we should. Instead of spending our time in studying the various themes of the day, we need to devote that time to the study of the Scriptures. We want to come with our Bibles on our knees before God and ask for wisdom from God to comprehend the treasures of truth. We cannot have root in ourselves unless we do this, for everything is to be shaken that can be shaken. The devil is working in a special manner with the popular churches to pick flaws with the Bible and with those who are working in Christ's lines, and infidelity prevails everywhere. It is the mystery of iniquity, the superhuman working of Satan, bewitching human minds with his power.--Ms 11, 1893, p. 3. ("Search the Scriptures," March 28, 1893.) {8MR 279.4}


Amen! Satan is working with the popular churches to pick flaws with the Bible.

We must pray for those among us who are doing this work of Satan by digging for flaws in our Bibles.

We must also thank the Lord for His protecting hand which has provided us with His WORD through various channels and given us a special message for the world today.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155832
09/06/13 03:46 AM
09/06/13 03:46 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Which are the "popular churches?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Green Cochoa] #155842
09/06/13 06:38 AM
09/06/13 06:38 AM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Which are the "popular churches?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


Your question reminds me of Nicodemus.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Gregory] #155843
09/06/13 07:30 AM
09/06/13 07:30 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,245
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Gregory
If our doctrines stand or fall on the basis of one Biblical text, they do not have a solid foundation.

All of our doctrines should be, and are, based upon the uniform witness of the Bible.
One of the physical manifestations of Ellen White when she went into vision was that like Daniel, the breath went completely out of her, she did not breathe, often for hours. Notice the difference between the NIV and the KJV.
Daniel 10:17 (New International Version)
17 How can I, your servant, talk with you, my lord? My strength is gone and I can hardly breathe."

Dan 10:17 (KJV) For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
"I can hardly breathe" is a far cry from "neither is there breath left in me"


Notice this next example also taken from the Book of Daniel:
Dan 3:25 (KJV) He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Daniel 3:25 (New International Version)
25 He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."
What son of what god are they talking about here? Baal? Apollos? The sun god?

When Nebuchadnezzar proclaimed the Son Of God, he was correct. He knew who the Hebrews worshipped, the true God.

'From his royal seat the king looked on, expecting to see the men who had defied him utterly destroyed. But his feelings of triumph suddenly changed. The nobles standing near saw his face grow pale as he started from the throne and looked intently into the glowing flames. In alarm the king, turning to his lords, asked, "Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? . . . Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."
{Prophets and Kings 509.1}

As in the days of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, so in the closing period of earth's history the Lord will work mightily in behalf of those who stand steadfastly for the right. He who walked with the Hebrew worthies in the fiery furnace will be with His followers wherever they are. His abiding presence will comfort and sustain. In the midst of the time of trouble--trouble such as has not been since there was a nation--His chosen ones will stand unmoved. Satan with all the hosts of evil cannot destroy the weakest of God's saints. Angels that excel in strength will protect them, and in their behalf Jehovah will reveal Himself as a "God of gods," able to save to the uttermost those who have put their trust in Him. {Prophets and Kings 513.1}http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pk/pk41.html

The changes are subtle, the omissions seem harmless, the shift hardly susceptible, and yet the purpose is unmistakable.

Last edited by Rick H; 09/06/13 07:51 AM.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155844
09/06/13 07:41 AM
09/06/13 07:41 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Which are the "popular churches?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


Your question reminds me of Nicodemus.

That's nice. Nicodemus was a scholar and a good learner. He asked wise questions.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Rick H] #155845
09/06/13 07:48 AM
09/06/13 07:48 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: Gregory
If our doctrines stand or fall on the basis of one Biblical text, they do not have a solid foundation.

All of our doctrines should be, and are, based upon the uniform witness of the Bible.
One of the physical manifestations of Ellen White when she went into vision was that like Daniel, the breath went completely out of her, she did not breathe, often for hours. Notice the difference between the NIV and the KJV.
Daniel 10:17 (New International Version)
17 How can I, your servant, talk with you, my lord? My strength is gone and I can hardly breathe."

Dan 10:17 (KJV) For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
"I can hardly breathe" is a far cry from "neither is there breath left in me"


Notice this next example also taken from the Book of Daniel:
Dan 3:25 (KJV) He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Daniel 3:25 (New International Version)
25 He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."
What son of what god are they talking about here? Baal? Apollos? The sun god?

When Nebuchadnezzar proclaimed the Son Of God, he was correct. He knew who the Hebrews worshipped, the true God.

'From his royal seat the king looked on, expecting to see the men who had defied him utterly destroyed. But his feelings of triumph suddenly changed. The nobles standing near saw his face grow pale as he started from the throne and looked intently into the glowing flames. In alarm the king, turning to his lords, asked, "Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? . . . Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."
{Prophets and Kings 509.1}

As in the days of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, so in the closing period of earth's history the Lord will work mightily in behalf of those who stand steadfastly for the right. He who walked with the Hebrew worthies in the fiery furnace will be with His followers wherever they are. His abiding presence will comfort and sustain. In the midst of the time of trouble--trouble such as has not been since there was a nation--His chosen ones will stand unmoved. Satan with all the hosts of evil cannot destroy the weakest of God's saints. Angels that excel in strength will protect them, and in their behalf Jehovah will reveal Himself as a "God of gods," able to save to the uttermost those who have put their trust in Him. {Prophets and Kings 513.1}http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pk/pk41.html

Rick has answered well.

And Gregory, I'm sure you know that there are doctrines which we hold that have only one witness in the Bible to support them. Changes to those verses, then, would be critical ones.

But the NIV translators didn't mind making changes to entire groups of verses--just to change the doctrine. Fasting is one such example.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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