kland is a liar? Hm. I think you owe him an apology. Saul committed suicide. The Bible is clear and EGW is clear. That should make you wake up and understand what the Bible means when it says God killed Saul, as this is not a unique situation.

There is another aspect that is missed by some, and it warps their view of the cross.

Who or what demands death? Justice demands that sin be not merely pardoned, but the death penalty must be executed. Justice demands it.

Who or what met those demands? God, in the gift of His only-begotten Son, met both these requirements. God met the demand.

Some would have us believe that sin is just, executing the death sentence itself. The work of God they attribute to sin or Satan. It's sad that Jesus experienced that during His earthly life, but it's extra sad that He still experiences it to this day.

The Executed the Son. Christ would not have died without the Father executing Him. Am I stating green's and asygo's position clearly?

What caused the death of Christ? The Father? Sin caused the death of Christ.

What causes death? Sin. Why do we charge God with murder?


This last quote should settle the question. God is not the cause of death. Sin is the cause of death.

Mrs. White speaks of God punishing in many places. That third quote above says what will punish for sin: "the indignation and wrath of God."

Somehow, some have reversed the grammar in their minds. They think that the wages of sin = the wages FROM sin not the wages FOR sin. But the wages are FOR sin, not FROM sin.

Grammar makes a world of difference here.

But, even if the grammar itself didn't seem clear, common sense should prevail. The wages of a teacher and the wages of a lawyer might be quite different. Some would rather have the wages of the lawyer, or those of a doctor. But all of these wages come from a source outside of the individual. A teacher does not pay himself or herself. A doctor cannot manufacture his or her own wages. Those wages come as a result of his or her work, but not FROM the work itself. Rather, it comes from others who pay the worker according to the work performed for them.

We are all working for God. Those who have done well will hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of thy Lord." Those who are wicked servants, however, will hear something else entirely. They will be cast out into outer darkness where there is weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Their wages will not be pleasant. But both faithful and unfaithful workers will receive wages from their Lord--either to honor, or to punishment.

If Mrs. White is to be believed, there can be no question but that God will punish. (Why does it take so many pages of discussion to establish such a simple matter?)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The 10C is a wall of protection from whom? GOD????

Sin pays it own wage, death. It is not execution by God. James 1:13-15 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: 14 but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death.

"Common sense"??? this is MAN's thinking. But let's takes Green's thinking - The wages of a teacher, lawyer or a doctor come from works, are we to assume this is a good analogy?. What if a worker does not fulfill their duty? Are they then punished, no, executed! for bad performance? No. They are let go.

Grammar - pick and choose, ignore the whole... "the solemn truth that it was sin that caused death." {PP 68.1} How is the grammer here not clear? Is it wrong? " It was the crushing weight of the sin of the world, a sense of separation from His Father's love. This was what broke the Saviour's heart, and brought His death so soon." {SJ 145.1} Is the grammar here not clear? Was Christ killed by execution or by sin?

But the clincher, which tells me who the real source of the idea that God is the cause of a sinner's death, "Satan, the author of sin and all its results, had led men to look upon disease and death as proceeding from God"  {DA 471.1}.

Why should we keep doing the devil's work and continue to spread his lies?

Satan must be rejoicing.

Selective reading? Pride of opinion?

I agree. The number of people he has led into doubting God's word is disheartening. Sinners have the audacity to hear God's word, then say that He is wrong. Yes, Satan rejoices.

Rejoicing over what? Over people refusing to attribute his character onto God?

Or is it the other way around?