Do you believe that Jesus received His Father's wrath? That is what we are told. Perhaps you do not accept this truth. But what is "wrath?" The dictionary of Mrs. White's day gives a good definition.



Of course, the Father was never angry with the sinless Jesus. Jesus only experienced that anger vicariously as our Substitute. Yet He experienced the full force of the Father's wrath, we are told. I choose to accept and believe that this is so.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You do not know what "God's wrath" is green. You are blinded from the truth. Calvary IS the answer. If you do not understand Calvary, you will not understand the rest of the Bible. All that needs to be known or can be known of God's character has been revealed by His Son. Where in Christ's life do you see what you accuse of Being?

The cross of Christ will be the science and the song of the redeemed through all eternity. In Christ glorified they will behold Christ crucified. Never will it be forgotten that He whose power created and upheld the unnumbered worlds through the vast realms of space, the Beloved of God, the Majesty of heaven, He whom cherub and shining seraph delighted to adore--humbled Himself to uplift fallen man; that He bore the guilt and shame of sin, and the hiding of His Father's face, till the woes of a lost world broke His heart and crushed out His life on Calvary's cross. That the Maker of all worlds, the Arbiter of all destinies, should lay aside His glory and humiliate Himself from love to man will ever excite the wonder and adoration of the universe. As the nations of the saved look upon their Redeemer and behold the eternal glory of the Father shining in His countenance; as they behold His throne, which is from everlasting to everlasting, and know that His kingdom is to have no end, they break forth in rapturous song: "Worthy, worthy is the Lamb that was slain, and hath redeemed us to God by His own most precious blood!" {GC 651.2}

This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph_4:18; Pro_8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1}

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. {DA 764.2}

Well, then, might the angels rejoice as they looked upon the Saviour's cross; for though they did not then understand all, they knew that the destruction of sin and Satan was forever made certain, that the redemption of man was assured, and that the universe was made eternally secure. Christ Himself fully comprehended the results of the sacrifice made upon Calvary. To all these He looked forward when upon the cross He cried out, "It is finished." {DA 764.4}

God's wrath, is when He allows us to have the choice that we have made. The natural consequences of sin is death. It is not execution by God. The Cross answers ALL the questions about the second death.

"I have been shown that all who love indulgence in sin, are the ones who do not hear, do not perceive the words spoken. Why? Because evil angels have so long led them and controlled their powers, that the words, spoken to awaken conviction, are changed by Satan to mean something else. This is evidencing the power of Satan over human ears to hear things all crooked and strange; and the very things which the Lord would have them hear, they do not understand. They say that you never spoke to them the words that you know you did speak. But Satan interrupted the words so that they did not hear them." {SpM 80.3}

Neither do you. I am thankful not to know. Ignorance is bliss, they say. Mrs. White describes it in the following paragraph.



However, there will come a day of reckoning in which all will know. The cross gives us a taste of what that may be.

But we are also given glimpses through the pen of inspiration. The Bible and Ellen White both teach us what God's wrath can mean.

It can be manifested in earthquakes, floods (including that of Noah's day), fire, famine, pestilences, swords, etc.




It also has a fiery element.



But, we have never seen God's unmingled wrath.



God's wrath is what the wicked suffer during their second death. Note the last sentence in the following.



Jesus experienced just what the wicked are to experience, according to that statement. It will be such sorrow and misery as cannot be described with language.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

What is the difference between holy wrath and human wrath?

Do we confuse the two?

Seems like Webster was an interesting character. Wasn't he the one who had something to do with the settlement of the border between USA and Canada, somewhere south of where you live, Daryl? He was especially nice to the Canadians. He gave Canada a huge piece of land which had originally belonged to USA - according to a document later discovered in Spain.

Just something I remember from my history class, but I have no documents to prove it now. Seems like we came to the conclusion this was the Dictionary-Webster.

So Webster settles the question of wrath? Was he inspired?

Indeed we do. That is the whole reason for the disagreement here. People have a hard time conceiving of how such a thing as "wrath" could by righteous or holy in the first place. The only yardstick they have by which to measure it is that of their own human experience.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It just appears to me that by your definition you are more interested in justifying Satan than justifying God, as if coming to an agreement with Satan is essential for salvation? Doesn't God take care of that?

"Indeed we do" and then you proceed to say they're the same?

Green, did you just say Christ was executed by the Father?