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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#156171
09/15/13 02:41 PM
09/15/13 02:41 PM
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Almighty God sees reasons that are hidden to us. God is able to protect someone from death when He sees it fits His purpose. Since God is able to protect anyone from death, the only way anyone could die is because God is unwilling to protect them and He chooses for them to die. And should God make a decision that doesn't make sense to us, that doesn't mean He is harsh or arbitrary; it simply means He sees reasons that are hidden to us. Are we still together?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: asygo]
#156174
09/15/13 03:25 PM
09/15/13 03:25 PM
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"Unwilling" seems such a harsh word, but otherwise there is no problem.
Doesn't Scripture tell us God does not want any one to perish? Why does it still happen?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#156183
09/15/13 05:47 PM
09/15/13 05:47 PM
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"Unwilling" seems such a harsh word, but otherwise there is no problem. Perhaps, but certainly less harsh than "unable" would be. I use the term simply to mean that God did not will, or choose, life. It wasn't that He was unable to perpetuate life, or that He wouldn't have preferred life in an ideal situation. But given our imperfect circumstances, there are times when God deems that death is the better option. Doesn't Scripture tell us God does not want any one to perish? Why does it still happen? As I touched on above, while God doesn't want anyone to perish, circumstances might be such that perishing is the more merciful option. For instance, if the unrepentant, impenitent sinner was allowed in heaven, it would be torture to him. He would have to spend eternity in the presence of the One he hates most, unable to do the things he loves. And if God kept him alive in a "quarantined" location by himself forever, he would be torturing himself forever. If he was with other sinners, they would be torturing each other forever. Even though almighty God has the ability to keep this sinner alive forever and death goes against His character, it is even more against His character to torture someone for eternity. Thus, death will occur against God's preference, but it does not occur against His will.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: asygo]
#156184
09/15/13 08:32 PM
09/15/13 08:32 PM
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This text is very clear: Isaiah 59
King James Version (KJV)
59 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Also the NIV Isaiah 59
New International Version (NIV)
Sin, Confession and Redemption
59 Surely the arm(A) of the Lord is not too short(B) to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.(C)
2 But your iniquities have separated(D)
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.(E)
3 For your hands are stained with blood,(F)
your fingers with guilt.(G)
Your lips have spoken falsely,(H)
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
4 No one calls for justice;(I)
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely(J) on empty arguments, they utter lies;(K)
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.(L) Elsewhere Isaiah makes it clear that the Lord will answer where this separation is not present. A current can be cut off at either end; by the provider or by the receiver. Scripture makes it clear that the current of life is cut off by the receiver - and here we are clearly speaking of life eternal which is the only life that really matters according to the Gospel. According to the laws of the nature God has created there is no life without a connection with the Life Giver. Satan wants you to think that eternal death is a punishment and he makes God an angry revenger. Eternity will never happen until the whole universe understands that God is not an avenger but that the sinner has separated himself from life and therefore would be unhappy to live in the kingdom of Heaven.
Last edited by Johann; 09/15/13 08:34 PM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#156186
09/15/13 08:53 PM
09/15/13 08:53 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Posts: 6,368
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Thus, death will occur against God's preference, but it does not occur against His will. Now that is a stretch. The wicked perish by God's will? Really? God's will is that none perish. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But God will not force His love on those that reject Him.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#156193
09/16/13 04:18 AM
09/16/13 04:18 AM
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Is someone going to quote Romans 12:19
Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord. ASV --------------------- ?
Last edited by Johann; 09/16/13 04:20 AM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#156194
09/16/13 04:25 AM
09/16/13 04:25 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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According to the laws of the nature God has created there is no life without a connection with the Life Giver. This is so because God set things up this way. If He wanted to, almighty God is able to perpetuate the sinner's life forever, right? And just to be clear, it is God who made it this way, not Satan, right?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: asygo]
#156195
09/16/13 04:27 AM
09/16/13 04:27 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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According to the laws of the nature God has created there is no life without a connection with the Life Giver. This is so because God set things up this way. If He wanted to, almighty God is able to perpetuate the sinner's life forever, right? And just to be clear, it is God who made it this way, not Satan, right? Are you trying to give God the responsibility?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#156196
09/16/13 04:31 AM
09/16/13 04:31 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Who is fighting against what God has created? God Himself?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#156197
09/16/13 04:37 AM
09/16/13 04:37 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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Satan wants you to think that eternal death is a punishment and he makes God an angry revenger.
Eternity will never happen until the whole universe understands that God is not an avenger but that the sinner has separated himself from life and therefore would be unhappy to live in the kingdom of Heaven. Would anyone be happy if the sinner was allowed to live in heaven forever? BTW, you should listen to part 2 of my sermon series: From Sinners to Saints, Part 2 - What's The Matter? I think you will find it interesting.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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