What evokes even further curiosity is that there are two Dr. Stephen E. Jones.

The first claims to be the child of missionaries, and that he was once a pastor of a small church (no denomination mentioned), took ten years out and returned to a new ministry. He's the Gods Kingdom-Ministries guy and has all these strange ideas of everyone being saved eventually, and no real choice, he even talks of the "asses"-- we usually don't use that term anymore but say "donkeys" but noticed both he and Elle used that illustration.

The second is a Physics professor at Brigham Young University and is into this Global Economic Restructure stuff, and all the conspiracy stuff etc.

Elle seems to have posted from both.

I don't think they are the same person unless he started as minister in a church, then during those 10 years was a professor in the Brigham Young University, and now is running all these so called "ministries".
Though that seems quite a stretch -- (the names Stephen and jones are after all very common names).

Though the "God's Kingdom" Jones, does have some of the restructure stuff on his website as well.

So are they different persons as it appears, or the same?
I don't know -- Just curious as I'm looking at the stuff.

The list of Texts

Acts 3:25;

Peter is preaching in the temple after healing the lame man.



The context plainly shows Peter is telling them they Killed the very one that was promised to Abraham Who would be a blessing to all people. Yes, Christ is a blessing to all people, but those who reject Him have rejected that blessing and will be destroyed.

exolethreuo = destroy utterly, to extirpate,

Don't spiritualize the plain words away.


Acts 3:21
This text comes from the same sermon as the texts above.


Peter is saying Christ has returned to heaven until the time to restore all things when he will come again.
It does not say all people who have ever lived will be saved.
That idea is read into YOUR PERSONAL definition of the "restoration of all things".
At that time sin will be WIPED out completely from the whole universe and peace and harmony will be restored.
That includes verse 23.

3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

exolethreuo = destroy utterly, to extirpate,




Gal 3:8;


This is saying the gospel blessings are offered to all nations. Yes, they are for all nations BUT
Notice who, however benefits --
THEY WHICH ARE OF FAITH
Its not a matter of --only Jews are recipients of the promises to Abraham, but those promises include people of all nations WHO HAVE FAITH. They are justified through faith.

Again -- there is nothing here that everyone, no matter what they think, believe or do will be saved





Eph 1:9,10;


Paul is preaching the wonderful gospel message of Christ's great offer of salvation.
And Christ will gather ALL that are in Him,
but those who continue in their sins are excluded from the inheritance.

And there is no way I'm going to believe that those outside the inheritance will have to work off their debt. Which is saying in essence they will have to BUY their salvation. That is so anti-gospel, anti bible - and simply a re-structuring of the penance/earning merits concept taught by the Catholic church.


"Let no man deceive you with vain words"

1Tim 4:10;



The "labor and reproach" is patiently endured because of the promise of life to come.
The cross of Christ offers salvation to all men. ( 1Ti 2:4) Tells us that God desires that all be saved, and God has given people their temporal life {the life that now is with all its blessings} so they can become believers, yet how much more are these blessing for those who are believers. While offering salvation to all, it is effective for believers alone.


John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me has everlasting life.



1Tim 2:1-6;



Paul is urging believers to pray for the salvation of unbelievers, for God desires that all men be saved.
Christ died for all.

And yes the word "will" has that meaning -- (desire that)
In all these texts the word "thelo" here translated "will" carries the meaning "desire" John 12:21; 15:7; 16:19; 17:24; 21:18; 21:22)
The whole concept is that God has made provision that all be saved, He would love to have all saved, and He desires us to pray for the salvation of others.
Yet further on Paul makes it plain that not all are saved:


drown -- sink into the deep
destruction -- destroy, ruin, death
perdition -- condemned to destruction,


1Jn 4:14;



Yes, God sent Jesus to save everyone in the world, no one needs to be excluded, but only those who accept that fabulous gift and accept Christ as their Saviour have the assurance of eternal life. He that rejects Christ, rejects life (Period)


Jn 3:17;



God didn't send Jesus to condemn an already condemned and bound for eternal death world -- a perishing world. He sent Jesus to provide a way to life! God loves people and provides salvation for all, but so many won't believe and stay in the condemned state.




1Jn 2:2;



The conditions are plainly spelled out here.
We can come with assurance to Christ for the forgiveness of sins. He has made provision for the forgiveness of the sins of the whole world, so no one needs to worry that their sins are too great for Christ to forgive.
Yet, the condition is plain
IF we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive and cleanse.


The bottom line in all these texts is this:
Condemnation and death was the fate of the whole world.
Christ came to offer life to everyone.
but the CHOICE remains with the person.
Will they choose Christ, the light and life?
Or will they choose to remain in sin, and darkness that ends, not only in the first death that all must suffer but in ultimate total destruction.

Elle seems to be silent in relation to these latest posts.

Dedication said it all.

I'm a bit busy right now and there's at least 5 discussions for me to address. So I don't know which one I'll address first.

Maybe it was five posts all in this same thread. In any case, take your time. I can understand being busy, as I've been quite busy lately as well.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I wish. No, it's in 5 differents threads with many posts in each....and I'm not very good in writing down my thoughts in good English. It takes me more time than most people to write something down.

I appreciate your understanding Green, and I do enjoy the discussions.

Elle, so you believe that no one will be in hell?

The last chapter of the old testament begs to differ with you...

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

ASHES. Not lesser believers, ashes. The idea that everyone makes it to heaven fits with the supremacist mindset of the Sacred Name movement.

You also seem to be getting deeper into your Sacred Name mindset Elle. Why would someone who is obviously not a devoted SDA believer want so desperately to congregate with SDA believers? Sounds like someone with an agenda, and very soon you will be tested on your faith and you will fail because you have not tended to the soil of your soul. The seed has fallen by the wayside, and the birds have taken what would have saved you.

You think you are more enlightened than Ellen White and come into our body of believers and try to convert others to your mindset? Oh how terrible for you in the last days.

I do pray for you. But I am not encouraged for you.